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The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

daringfireball.net

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Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#41
post #34
post #16

It's certainly possible there's a backend flag on the site. But from the comments I see on Reddit, I suspect there may be a simpler explanation: a lot of people for some reason really dislike John Gruber and view him as someone who slavishly praises Apple. I'm a big John Gruber fan, and I don't think this is true in the slightest. I think he thinks carefully, forms his own opinions, and is very willing to intensely c…

"But this means his pro and con opinions don't match typical opinions and this makes him polarizing. And hence some people will flag his articles reflexively or post reflexive dismissals. And Hacker News is heavily weighted to downrank polarizing articles." The downranking is particularly weird since HN's professed norms go extremely hard on something along the lines of "you should take atypical opinions seriously si…

> The downranking is particularly weird since HN's professed norms go extremely hard on something along the lines of "you should take atypical opinions seriously since they're more likely to contain new information than opinions that are conventional-wisdom-with-a-few-little-sprinkles-on-top."

HN's "professed norms" (i.e., the guidelines) do not state that, and opinions, atypical or otherwise, have zero information content beyond the information that so-and-so holds such-and-such opinion.

Atypical opinions may be, on average, more likely to be accompanied by intellectually interesting arguments, but that's, at best, a loose correlation, not an iron law that where one thing occurs the other will also.

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#43
My personal guess is…

I bet flags weigh more from high karma users. It seems likely that there is a small, dedicated band of anti-DF users with high karma who flag everything.

It probably only takes a few people with enough karma to kill a post, which is consistent with the fact that some posts have a reasonable half life. I don’t think it’s a formal gray list.

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#44

Would love to hear from HN on why such an otherwise incredible popular site is so often blacklisted or censored vs what is allowed. Why not let users vote instead like other news? Or if truly not being censored bring receipts on what’s happening?

It's not being blacklisted or censored (see other comment with link to submissions). My suspicion: it's not relevant to the HN audience. DF is opinion pieces (mostly) about Apple. While I'm sure many DF readers use some Apple device(s), I suspect many (most?) DF readers do not care about "inside baseball"[0] for Apple. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_baseball_(metaphor)

How then do you explain DF being #3 from 2007-2021 and #72 from 2021-2025?

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#45

Two wrongs don’t make a right. HN and DF are both stubbornly wrong about refusing to use good typography and a sensible approach to responsive design. I know that stubbornness and misplaced pride go hand in hand, but it’s harming the both of them. I would definitely read DF more often if I didn’t have to use Safari’s reader mode just to be able to read it.

You can read Wikipedia. It’s free and their CSS ain’t bad.

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#46
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not being blacklisted or censored (see other comment with link to submissions). My suspicion: it's not relevant to the HN audience. DF is opinion pieces (mostly) about Apple. While I'm sure many DF readers use some Apple device(s), I suspect many (most?) DF readers do not care about "inside baseball"[0] for Apple. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_baseball_(metaphor)

How then do you explain DF being #3 from 2007-2021 and #72 from 2021-2025?

Don’t ask them. The only one who can give you a sure answer is @dang .

My guess is that HN users flag the hell out of DF submissions for whatever reason, and that causes the so-called graylisting. But again only @dang can give you a straight answer.

If you prefer email, Dan can be reached at hn@ycombinator.com. He seems like a friendly guy.

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#47
post #31

I suspect it may be a mix of various factors: 1. The HN audience’s preferences have changed over time 2. There’s way more competition – the amount of great content to share and discuss has increased a lot 3. Gruber apparently does not write as much or as well as he did a decade or so ago (at least according to many Daring Fireball readers I know) 4. Yes, many readers don’t like him, but I would also say that many rea…

So you think I was consistently at #3 “as much and as well” from 2007-2021, and declined to #72 “as much and as well” quality in the last 4 years?

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#48
People on HN are human beings, and there are definitely Apple tribes and non-Apple tribes.

Gruber also posts more now than in recent memory political observations and commentary. As he's gotten older his blog has expanded beyond just the Apple scene.

While I've always felt DF got insta-banned by fanbois of other tribes regardless of the content of his posts (which should be discouraged here in some way imo) it's quite possible he's got folks on The Other Aisle that insta-flag him simply because they don't like his political views.

If that's what's happening, or it's due to a decades-long disagreement with his taste and views regardless of the posts being submitted, that feels like unwarranted censorship that goes against the grain of HN's guidelines.

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#50
post #39

For posterity, here's a spreadsheet of all Daring Fireball submissions to HN, sorted chronologically: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1A7ljmWbHtFsB4VRJ1Q0d... From first glance there's still some decent traffic on Daring Fireball submissions, even inside the times Gruber asserts deadweighting.

How then do you explain DF being #3 from 2007-2021 and #72 from 2021-2025? It’s clearly not blacklisted, but clearly is shitlisted, no?

Have you tried emailing hn@ycombinator.com and asking?

From https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html

How are stories ranked?

The basic algorithm divides points by a power of the time since a story was submitted. Comments in threads are ranked the same way.

Other factors affecting rank include user flags, anti-abuse software, software which demotes overheated discussions, account or site weighting, and moderator action.

I expect there's been an increase in user flags.

BTW "Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading."

Same rule applies for submissions.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

FWIW, I'm a regular reader of your blog and have not flagged any daringfireball submissions. But this article is asking to be flagged. It's a needlessly provocative title and not all that interesting to discuss.

I'd also like to point out a bit of hypocrisy on your part. You don't accept comments on your site. If you want folks to comment on your blog, maybe reconsider hosting the comments yourself?

https://shawnblanc.net/2007/07/why-daring-fireball-is-commen...

https://daringfireball.net/linked/2010/06/16/powazek-comment...

https://daringfireball.net/2010/06/whats_fair

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