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You should know this before choosing Next.js

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Re: You should know this before choosing Next.js

#91

Post by 9rx »

dirtbag__dad wrote: post #47
vmg12 wrote: post #14

The single reason I switched from next.js was because it was taking me 6-7 seconds on a small project to see changes I made appear in the browser during development (on an M1 Max Macbook pro with 64gb of ram). This is when using the app router, where every change requires a compilation step. I now just use a React SPA with Vite.

Yeah, this is shocking to me. I’m a backend developer who occasionally tinkers with frontend. I gave nextjs a spin and couldn’t believe the reload times on a new project. For folks who use this every day, how/why is this acceptable?

> For folks who use this every day, how/why is this acceptable?

While I thankfully don't have to use Nextjs often, in general I am not sure I even launch my app in the browser every single day. Your tests and whatnot are already providing continuous feedback about the state of the code. 6-7 seconds every once in a while wouldn't be the end of the world.

But even it were instantaneous, Nextjs has a horrible developer experience for a multitude of other reasons.

Re: You should know this before choosing Next.js

#92

Post by koakuma-chan »

nonethewiser wrote: post #73
blackoil wrote: post #23

What is a good alternative, if I want to stick to React. Does any other framework support server/client hybrid rendering.

There are many Astro recommendations. I like it as well but only for more content heavy websites. If you dont have that it's not as easy to work with as something like Remix in my experience.

It's a common misconception. Astro is not just for blogs. They implement islands architecture[0] and advocate for progressive enhancement[1], which has many benefits.

[0]: https://docs.astro.build/en/concepts/islands/

[1]: https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/technology/using-progressi...

Re: You should know this before choosing Next.js

#93

Post by koinedad »

I haven’t used recent versions but I remember trying to use it like 6 years ago on a project and trying to figure out how to display an SVG was ridiculous. The solution was a specific next-svg package… but that’s not a great experience to need to find Next-specific packages for common uses. We ended up going with CRA at the time, today I imagine we would’ve chose React/Vite but we also didn’t need any benefits of SSR for the project

Re: You should know this before choosing Next.js

#94

Post by nonethewiser »

koakuma-chan wrote: post #92
nonethewiser wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many Astro recommendations. I like it as well but only for more content heavy websites. If you dont have that it's not as easy to work with as something like Remix in my experience.

It's a common misconception. Astro is not just for blogs. They implement islands architecture[0] and advocate for progressive enhancement[1], which has many benefits. [0]: https://docs.astro.build/en/concepts/islands/ [1]: https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/technology/using-progressi...

>It's a common misconception.

I think this makes it sound like I'm repeating something I've heard. It's my experience, not just some preconceived notion I have. I find it much easier to use something like Next.js, Remix, etc. (if we are comparing frameworks) than Astro for more dynamic web apps.

I would be very surprised to hear someone who prefers to build substantial dynamic SPA in Astro. But if that's you I'd love to hear more.

Re: You should know this before choosing Next.js

#96

Post by [deleted] »

rco8786 wrote: post #12

I was using next.js when they switched from the pages router to app router. I ended up just abandoning the project, the app router experience was that bad, and haven't really been keen on picking up next.js since then. It's always seemed clear that Vercel has been, at best, OSS- ish . Trying to play both sides of claiming to be open source but also (somewhat sneakily) building a walled garden to lock users into their…

[deleted]

Re: You should know this before choosing Next.js

#97

Post by koakuma-chan »

nonethewiser wrote: post #94
koakuma-chan wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a common misconception. Astro is not just for blogs. They implement islands architecture[0] and advocate for progressive enhancement[1], which has many benefits. [0]: https://docs.astro.build/en/concepts/islands/ [1]: https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/technology/using-progressi...

>It's a common misconception. I think this makes it sound like I'm repeating something I've heard. It's my experience, not just some preconceived notion I have. I find it much easier to use something like Next.js, Remix, etc. (if we are comparing frameworks) than Astro for more dynamic web apps. I would be very surprised to hear someone who prefers to build substantial dynamic SPA in Astro. But if that's you I'd love…

The reason I said that is because it's very easy for people to get the wrong idea that Astro is just one of those blog pre-rendering engines, because it strips JavaScript by default and has features like Collections API and built-in markdown rendering. But I'm also willing to argue that Astro is not any harder than Next.js or Remix, just takes a different approach (islands).

I actually did build a substantial dynamic SPA in Astro[0], and I would still choose Astro if I could start all over again, because just like other frameworks Astro has great support for data fetching, and also allows you to trivially have some parts of your application fully JavaScript-free, such as the login page where just the browser-native form is sufficient.

[0]: https://github.com/mayo-dayo/app

Re: You should know this before choosing Next.js

#98

Post by 9rx »

jFriedensreich wrote: post #52

I was always highly sceptical of vercel even though or maybe also because i really love the design and public appeal they are going for. But something about everything they do and talk about gives me the creeps, something is telling me that they are not genuine and keeping something. Its maybe the same feeling when you talk to a really pleasant to talk to person who you just know is a psychopath making the heir on yo…

I find the problem is that Vercel has great product vision, but is weak in the engineering department, so encounters end up in some kind of uncanny valley.

Re: You should know this before choosing Next.js

#99

Post by nonethewiser »

koakuma-chan wrote: post #97
nonethewiser wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's a common misconception. I think this makes it sound like I'm repeating something I've heard. It's my experience, not just some preconceived notion I have. I find it much easier to use something like Next.js, Remix, etc. (if we are comparing frameworks) than Astro for more dynamic web apps. I would be very surprised to hear someone who prefers to build substantial dynamic SPA in Astro. But if that's you I'd love…

The reason I said that is because it's very easy for people to get the wrong idea that Astro is just one of those blog pre-rendering engines, because it strips JavaScript by default and has features like Collections API and built-in markdown rendering. But I'm also willing to argue that Astro is not any harder than Next.js or Remix, just takes a different approach (islands). I actually did build a substantial dynamic…

Very cool, thank you for sharing. I'll check it out.

I agree that it doesnt only do blogs and static sites. I found it to be harder to use for other cases but I'll poke around in that repo.

Re: You should know this before choosing Next.js

#100

Post by owebmaster »

joshdavham wrote: post #54

I feel that open source is truly at its best when it’s done by enthusiasts/hobbyists and not necessarily by corporations. React and Nextjs always smelled a bit suspicious to me whereas Svelte and Vue did not. There’s actually an old PG essay talking about Java where I feel a lot of what he says applies to Nextjs: https://www.paulgraham.com/javacover.html

> whereas Svelte and Vue did not.

The svelte guy was hired by Vercel a few years ago and is completely on board. Same strategy used to co-opt React.

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