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Scientists break down plastic using a simple, inexpensive catalyst and air

phys.org

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Re: Scientists break down plastic using a simple, inexpensive catalyst and air

#61

Post by culi »

Gigachad wrote: post #32
timschmidt wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or we could price cleanup and recycling of the constituent materials into the purchase price by requiring manufacturers to pay to recycle all the items they manufacture. This approach closes the loop in a way which encourages manufacturers to re-engineer their products to be less expensive to recycle.

Cleanup is impossible though. How are you going to clean up a trillion nanoplastic dust particles? What is the effective difference between phasing out fleece clothing vs charging $100M for a jacket?

If $100M is what it would cost to internalize the economic externalities of fleece then that is the true fair price of the item. Anything less than that is a subsidy

We are subsidizing these materials with our health and our environment. And it affects certain people more than others—usually people who have the least say in it

A 100% linen shirt currently costs around $40 and, when cared for properly, can last a lifetime. Rubber bands made out of natural rubber are much stronger and will last at least 10x as long as plastic ones and are about the same price. I could go on, but the alternatives exist and are already often much cheaper in the long run.

Re: Scientists break down plastic using a simple, inexpensive catalyst and air

#62

Post by bavell »

culopatin wrote: post #33
PaulHoule wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen 100% recycled PET bottles for Coca-Cola products in the US https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/19/food/coca-cola-new-bottles/in... and Pepsi is selling 100% post-consumer bottles in some EU countries https://www.pepsico.com/our-stories/press-release/pepsico-co... Those clear beverage containers are an ideal case for mechanical recycling. This company https://repreve.com/ makes polyester fiber from recycled PET. I h…

But fabrics are the best way of putting super hard to track microplastics in water and in the air. We drink them and inhale them

I've heard recycled plastic's polymer structure can be compromised, leading to orders of magnitude more micro plastics being released into e.g. your plastic water bottle.

Re: Scientists break down plastic using a simple, inexpensive catalyst and air

#63

Post by culi »

math wrote: post #35
culi wrote: post #18

This is great but PET (symbol #1) is one of the few plastics that ARE recyclable. I wonder if any of these techniques can be used to solve the non-recyclable plastic problems

Aduro’s tech works with hard to recycle, dirty, mixed plastic. Search for Eric Appelman interview on YouTube for more info. Some of the retail investor coverage is cringeworthy, but my take is the tech is likely as good as described (disclosure: I’m an investor).

Mixed plastic is definitely impressive, but how is it separated? I imagine a lot of it must be done by hand? And then washed with water? Seems both labor intensive and energy intensive

Re: Scientists break down plastic using a simple, inexpensive catalyst and air

#64

Post by glenneroo »

whynotnowplz wrote: post #38

Why don't we throw all our trash into a volcano?

Even better, you can throw them into "electric volcanoes" to produce electricity (and sometimes heat) as a byproduct: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/does-burning-garb...

Re: Scientists break down plastic using a simple, inexpensive catalyst and air

#66

Post by nervousvarun »

mc32 wrote: post #60
nervousvarun wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an important point you're making here...Can you expand on that with an example? A specific use of plastic as a container that gives the desired characteristics...specifically where those characteristics could not be met by another (if expense isn't a consideration) material? If there are less toxic materials that could "do the job" but are more expensive then it really is about money no?

Prescription canisters (the tamper resistant/child proof ones). You could do without it but you now subject children to accidental ingestion. Single meal frozen food containers. You need a seal. Some impregnated cardboard can work, but not as well and is full of chemicals to overcome its disadvantages. Disposable water bottles. You can use metal vessels, they cost a bit more, but doable. Packaged frozen meats (they k…

Thank you...excellent examples. I think this is a conversation though that must be framed correctly. There's a balance between modern convenience, expense etc. and literally the harm we're possibly doing to our endocrine systems. Right now there seems to be very little real repercussions for companies and we have a bit of a corporate Wild West in play here. Surely that must change.

Re: Scientists break down plastic using a simple, inexpensive catalyst and air

#67

Post by dwighttk »

nervousvarun wrote: post #66
mc32 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prescription canisters (the tamper resistant/child proof ones). You could do without it but you now subject children to accidental ingestion. Single meal frozen food containers. You need a seal. Some impregnated cardboard can work, but not as well and is full of chemicals to overcome its disadvantages. Disposable water bottles. You can use metal vessels, they cost a bit more, but doable. Packaged frozen meats (they k…

Thank you...excellent examples. I think this is a conversation though that must be framed correctly. There's a balance between modern convenience, expense etc. and literally the harm we're possibly doing to our endocrine systems. Right now there seems to be very little real repercussions for companies and we have a bit of a corporate Wild West in play here. Surely that must change.

I think perhaps that “possibly” needs to be nailed down a little better

Re: Scientists break down plastic using a simple, inexpensive catalyst and air

#68

Post by BurningFrog »

dwighttk wrote: post #53
piokoch wrote: post #50

There is no such a thing like "plastic". The article is about PET - polyethylene terephthalate, there are hundreds other "plastics", which different chemical propensities. The problem is not actual act of recycling, but figuring out what a given piece is made of. PET is popular - 70% of all bottles are made of it, but there are those 30%, so the most expensive part - sorting - has to be carried anyway. Plus we target…

There are actual reasons different plastics are used in different situations… it’s not just companies saying “ha ha this will be extremely difficult on the recyclers!” Some plastic needs to be heat resistant, some, it doesn’t matter. Some plastic needs to be easy to tear, some needs to resist tearing. Some plastic needs to be flexible, some needs to be stiff. Easily removable labels often fall off before they are act…

So what might square this circle is to develop several materials that all can be broken down/recycled by a common process.

Far easier said than done, I'm sure. But someone has to say it before it can happen.

Re: Scientists break down plastic using a simple, inexpensive catalyst and air

#69

Post by BurningFrog »

bschwindHN wrote: post #52
piokoch wrote: post #50

There is no such a thing like "plastic". The article is about PET - polyethylene terephthalate, there are hundreds other "plastics", which different chemical propensities. The problem is not actual act of recycling, but figuring out what a given piece is made of. PET is popular - 70% of all bottles are made of it, but there are those 30%, so the most expensive part - sorting - has to be carried anyway. Plus we target…

Very good questions, but the answer is disappointing: because money

"Because money" always boils down to "because it requires a lot of resources".

It's not about random pieces of paper with numbers.

Re: Scientists break down plastic using a simple, inexpensive catalyst and air

#70

Post by XorNot »

BurningFrog wrote: post #68
dwighttk wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are actual reasons different plastics are used in different situations… it’s not just companies saying “ha ha this will be extremely difficult on the recyclers!” Some plastic needs to be heat resistant, some, it doesn’t matter. Some plastic needs to be easy to tear, some needs to resist tearing. Some plastic needs to be flexible, some needs to be stiff. Easily removable labels often fall off before they are act…

So what might square this circle is to develop several materials that all can be broken down/recycled by a common process. Far easier said than done, I'm sure. But someone has to say it before it can happen.

Insert XKCD standards comic here

Manufacturing works very much like software in this regard - i.e. VHS vs BetaMax

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