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U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

theatlantic.com

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Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#851

Post by sethammons »

sureglymop wrote: post #752
dyauspitr wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, unfortunately we’re already at that point. Republicans and their base close ranks so effectively that it’s essentially a safe haven for all sorts of corruption and serious crime. The voters won’t punish them at the ballot and they’ve essentially captured all sources of checks and balances.

It's Republicans and Democrats. You're in this position in the first place because you have no real political diversity. It's not gonna change in that two party system either.

Vote for ranked choice voting, starting at the local levels.

Grade school needs rank choice voting activities to help make it feel familiar.

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#852

Post by gnfargbl »

pembrook wrote: post #825
bildung wrote: post #815

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These just compare market cap. As the US economy is disproportionally financialized, that outcome is hardly surprising: This was just measuring market financialization by proxy. I mean two of the largest on the left, Google and Meta, are essentially just ad companies. Now compare companies by actual revenue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_in_E... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_…

Yes, Europe did have great entrepreneurial culture in the past, but the point of the “founded in the last 50 years” distinction is to measure how things have been going for entrepreneurs who are still alive today. You can’t call a region a “safe haven for entrepreneurs” if all the globally relevant entrepreneurs from that region are dead from old age. Remember, Europe has double the population of the US. To lag behin…

Your point is well taken, but I think we need to question why Europe declined so significantly as a centre of innovation.

A big part of it is obviously the relative effects of twentieth century wars, both hot and cold. However, we also need to be aware that in recent decades, the US has just offered a better deal for entrepreneurs than Europe. By that I mean it has been a democratic, rule-of-law-based country with relatively easy access to capital and relatively low taxes.

It still has the last two things, of course. But the first two are also essential, long-term, and if they're eroded then the US might stop looking like a better deal.

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#853

Post by DrScientist »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #398
atonse wrote: post #141

Setting aside the obvious shock of the actual subject, I'm going to try the herculean task of bringing this back to being a HN-related topic... My guess is that there is someone named Jeffrey Goldberg in the NatSec team (or high up, it seems like a common combination of first and last name at least), and likely that they meant to add him, rather than the EDITOR IN CHIEF of the Atlantic of all people. Could this be a…

Entirely possible. Which is why Government services for 'chat' explicitly don't allow contacts to appear who aren't already in the government. You've also no doubt seen email as it appears in Government inboxes with the big red banner "Came from outside, don't trust this" kinds of things will all the links disabled. Two things that are really troublesome. The first, as Josh Marshall of TPM points out, "No one on that…

> Most pundits feel like this administration is trying to keep things out of FOIA and discoverability reach which has its own problems.

Similar issues have come up in the UK about Boris Johnson et al using Whatsapp etc during Covid, and one of the things they said in their defence did have some value - at least in relation to the idea of unminuted discussions.

ie these chat's are what used to be corridor/bar/cafe conversations - ie unminuted discussions are old as government - it's just they are now happening on various messaging apps rather than in person, at much faster pace, and with more people involved.

So I think it's a mistake to think its reasonable that all discussions should be recorded - the real question here is how to get the right balance - and make sure any decision making meetings are recorded - rather than the chat around the decision.

The way it worked in the past - was to get a proper decision you needed all the people in the same room - and so it was automatically minuted as it was an official meeting ( but not the chat at coffee before the meeting ) - now it's possible to get people together virtually that distinction is blurred.

Not sure what the answer is - but just saying it's probably unreasonable to expect all communications to be recorded - people need space to float ideas, or bitch like normal people - however on the other hand it is essential key meetings are minuted - not just for transparency - but for the study of history.

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#854

Post by tonyhart7 »

jaredklewis wrote: post #735
fpoling wrote: post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because this is death to entrepreneurship This does not follow. Even in highly corrupt authoritarian countries entrepreneurship can flourish. Just consider Turkey or Russia. In such places one quickly learn whom to pay with corruption payouts becoming business expenses.

Does entrepreneurship flourish in Russia? This would surprise me just because its GDP is smaller than Italy's, and around 17% of it is oil and gas. CAGR for past 10 years in Russia is ~1.5% (compared with ~2.3% for the US). Just seems logical to me that if entrepreneurship was flourishing, we would see more economic growth as a result.

"This would surprise me just because its GDP is smaller than Italy's"

GDP to US dollar is only works IF your export and import is only traded with US dollar which doesn't to be the case since Russia is trade with Brics partner that bypass all sanction and not using US dollar

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#855

Post by fundatus »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #840
gspr wrote: post #836

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how this subthread devolved into arguing about Europe's attached bottlecap regulations and that the GDPR has resulted in lots of very annoying cookie banners. So in the US you have a corrupt, authoritarian takeover of a society – and in Europe you have well-meaning, but somewhat annoying, regulations that still need some work to function perfectly.

The cookie banners were never mandated by GDPR, that's entirely the industry's fault and intent - dark UX patterns to try and annoy the user into agreeing, or a silent protest to the perceived overbearing nature of the GDPR. They could've just respected a browser's do-not-track header but chose not to. The EU legislators should've done that too, that is, dictate a standardized method for people to opt in.

Or.. god forbid.. not track users?! I know this isn't viable for many businesses, but back then I just removed Google Analytics and all cookies from my sites, so no cookie banners needed.

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#857

Post by soulofmischief »

nkrisc wrote: post #832
whiplash451 wrote: post #790

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe suffers from another kind of "corruption", more akin to a corrupted file system: absurd, rigid and unpredictable regulation makes life very hard for businesses, which drives large private capital away. I am European, and every time I open one of those stupid locked-on bottle caps, I feel pain for my country, for Europe (and for my face).

> I am European, and every time I open one of those stupid locked-on bottle caps, I feel pain for my country, for Europe (and for my face). Is life so bad in Europe that’s what you have to complain about? Sounds truly like a nightmare - caps attached to bottles? Barbaric.

They're pointing out a surface-level symptom of a much deeper bureaucratic sickness in parts of Europe. There's a reason British comedy is what it is.

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#858

Post by belter »

joshuamerrill wrote: post #457

I began my career in a classified environment working on government satellite programs. In my first week on the job, I was told, explicitly, that if I shared Classified or Controlled Unclassified information over unapproved channels, I would be reprimanded—likely fired, or less likely, prosecuted. It was also made clear that safeguarding the nation's secrets from the carelessness of others was my responsibility, too.…

All the President's Men:

https://youtu.be/ihHU3IVVrfM?t=477

https://youtu.be/isNlC0RYOyE?t=565

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#859

Post by tonyhart7 »

joshuamerrill wrote: post #457

I began my career in a classified environment working on government satellite programs. In my first week on the job, I was told, explicitly, that if I shared Classified or Controlled Unclassified information over unapproved channels, I would be reprimanded—likely fired, or less likely, prosecuted. It was also made clear that safeguarding the nation's secrets from the carelessness of others was my responsibility, too.…

"that if I shared Classified or Controlled Unclassified information over unapproved channels"

You are confuse yourself, THEY ARE THE LAW

these are the most powerful guys in the nation, who decide to catch who and whom??? these guys who decide that not the other way around

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#860

Post by foldr »

soulofmischief wrote: post #857
nkrisc wrote: post #832

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am European, and every time I open one of those stupid locked-on bottle caps, I feel pain for my country, for Europe (and for my face). Is life so bad in Europe that’s what you have to complain about? Sounds truly like a nightmare - caps attached to bottles? Barbaric.

They're pointing out a surface-level symptom of a much deeper bureaucratic sickness in parts of Europe. There's a reason British comedy is what it is.

It’s very easy to start a business in the UK and the regulatory environment isn’t particularly hostile to it. It depends a lot on what line of business you’re in, of course (as it does anywhere else).
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