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U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

theatlantic.com

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Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#551

Post by TheAlchemist »

yodsanklai wrote: post #388

And these guys have been in power for only a few months, they're still finding out about their new tools. What will happen in the next 4 years? will they even leave power peacefully?

That's a good question, for a lot of them, and especially Musk.

What's his endgame now ? If Trump is no longer in power, even if Musk doens't land directly in prison, I have a hard time imagining the new government collaborating in any way with him or his companies. And they sure behave like this is not an issue.

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#552

Post by bb88 »

chasil wrote: post #547
joshuamerrill wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I don't know whether either of those are appropriate. There aren't many comparable breaches to this one. The closest in modern times may be Hillary Clinton's email server being used for government business. In that case, the FBI investigated and declined to bring charges, under the expectation that a jury would be unlikely to render a guilty verdict. Okay, fine. But the FBI investigated and laid out the facts…

Assuming this to be true, this conversation is over. "The Biden administration installed the Signal messaging app on CIA computers and approved it for official government use." https://pjmedia.com/matt-margolis/2025/03/25/has-the-staffer...

It looks like it was approved only for CIA use with permissible use. Even though it was installed, did not mean it was suitable for all communications.

Here's the important relevant quote:

    "It is permissible to use to communicate and coordinate
     for work purposes. Provided that any decisions that are 
     made are also recorded through formal channels. So 
     those were procedures that were implemented. My staff 
     implemented those processes," Ratcliffe said.

    "My communications, to be clear, in a Signal message 
     group were entirely permissible and lawful and did not 
     include classified information," he added.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/cia-director-john-ratcliffe-defen...

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#553

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

joshuamerrill wrote: post #457

I began my career in a classified environment working on government satellite programs. In my first week on the job, I was told, explicitly, that if I shared Classified or Controlled Unclassified information over unapproved channels, I would be reprimanded—likely fired, or less likely, prosecuted. It was also made clear that safeguarding the nation's secrets from the carelessness of others was my responsibility, too.…

> But the idea that this breach can occur with no accountability, consequences, or operational changes is unacceptable.

There will be no accountability, consequences, or operational changes because the American people (a plurality of them anyway) voted for this. I like how people are even bothering to bring up the risk of prosecution, as if Trump wouldn't just pardon the people involved anyway.

Look, I am as disgusted as you are, but I continue to be impressed/disgusted by the neverending levels of shamelessness shown by Trump and his cronies:

1. Trump is now somehow blaming the reporter for this, calling him a "sleazebag".

2. Probably doesn't need repeating, but all the chants about "lock her up" against Hillary Clinton were due to her supposed mishandling of classified information. Yeah, waiting to hear all the outrage from the right over this 10x more egregious example.

3. I still continue to be awed by Hegseth railing against DEI because it's "anti-merit", as I can't think of an ass clown less qualified to be Sec of Defense.

Nothing will change unless the American people, at large, decide to punish those at the ballot box who exhibit these behaviors, and so far they have not been willing to do that.

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#554

Post by matwood »

cmurf wrote: post #269
9dev wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we stop with the nth-D chess nonsense? This administration proves day by day that no advanced tactics are going on, it’s literally just clueless idiots improvising because they’re way out of their league but are too self-absorbed to step back.

Can we stop with the clueless idiots nonsense? Some are that. The POTUS is also insane. Many more are much, much worse. Marco Rubio absolutely knows due process is a right for all persons subject to U.S. law. It's not only a right for citizens, and having taken this right away from persons, in no meaningful way can it be said it's preserves for citizens. The federal government is at best in abeyance. And an adversary…

People often mysteriously turn into idiots when their job depends on it.

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#555

Post by VoodooJuJu »

joshuamerrill wrote: post #457

I began my career in a classified environment working on government satellite programs. In my first week on the job, I was told, explicitly, that if I shared Classified or Controlled Unclassified information over unapproved channels, I would be reprimanded—likely fired, or less likely, prosecuted. It was also made clear that safeguarding the nation's secrets from the carelessness of others was my responsibility, too.…

[dead]

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#556

Post by dontparticipate »

rafaelmn wrote: post #451
Animats wrote: post #447

Here's how Eisenhower dealt with a similar leak.[1] General Henry Miller made public comments about the secret date of the Allied invasion of Normandy in May 1944. He was a personal friend of Eisenhower. Eisenhower demoted him and sent him back to the US in disgrace. He wasn't court-martialed. [1] https://youtu.be/fD0IlFPTopA?t=269

I'm sorry but how in the hell is that a similar leak other than they are in the same category ? Not justifying Trump administration but just seems like a whole different level of stakes.

Today's bombing of Yemen is tomorrow's landing of Marines on Taiwan, or I guess these days marching into Montreal and landing in Greenland. All of these require complete OPSEC from the entire chain of command.

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#557

Post by jjeaff »

billy99k wrote: post #363
hoistbypetard wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the government world, people have been jailed for it. Not people so directly connected to a president, though.

Heh. Like when they arrested someone for running their own mail server and sending classified information through it? Oh wait...

yes, after months and months of investigations and hearing and non-stop new coverage and a Republican led committee that admitted in their final report that while there was negligence, they couldn't find any wrong doing.

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#558

Post by mulmen »

joshuamerrill wrote: post #478
whattheheckheck wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you specifically calling out you are not suggesting punishment nor prosecution?

Because I don't know whether either of those are appropriate. There aren't many comparable breaches to this one. The closest in modern times may be Hillary Clinton's email server being used for government business. In that case, the FBI investigated and declined to bring charges, under the expectation that a jury would be unlikely to render a guilty verdict. Okay, fine. But the FBI investigated and laid out the facts…

> FBI investigated and declined to bring charges

Does the FBI make this determination? Wouldn’t that be the Attorney General’s call?

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#559

Post by bb88 »

uberdru wrote: post #542
simonh wrote: post #513

Steve Witkoff was on the chat while he was in Russia. There’s a vulnerability in Signal where you can set up linked devices that replicate your signal messages. You can do this by just scanning a QRcode. This is known to be used by Russian hackers. What are the chances the Russians duped Witkoff into scanning a QR code while he was in Moscow?

Totally! Probably for a restaurant menu or something. . . It also seems likely that they added Jeffrey Goldberg, (the Atlantic's editor-in-chief) to the chat as the outlet, so the whole thing would become public. . . .

How about a restaurant that doesn't have menus and requires patrons to scan a QR code?

Acrylic table menus have inserts which can be easily replaced.

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#560

Post by stavros »

bb88 wrote: post #559
uberdru wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally! Probably for a restaurant menu or something. . . It also seems likely that they added Jeffrey Goldberg, (the Atlantic's editor-in-chief) to the chat as the outlet, so the whole thing would become public. . . .

How about a restaurant that doesn't have menus and requires patrons to scan a QR code? Acrylic table menus have inserts which can be easily replaced.

You guys are forgetting that you have to scan the QR code from Signal's "link new device" menu, and then approve the new device, which is a somewhat uncommon thing for a restaurant menu to ask you to do.
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