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U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

theatlantic.com

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Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#351

Post by EgregiousCube »

swiftymon wrote: post #313
frenchman_in_ny wrote: post #296

In the banking world, employees have been fined significant sums, or even forced from their jobs [0], for unauthorized use of messaging platforms. And here, it's barely a shrug. Unbelievable. [0] https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/morgan-stanley-hit-...

it's not unauthorized use of signal; "Government officials have used Signal for organizational correspondence, such as scheduling sensitive meetings, but in the Biden administration, people who had permission to download it on their White House-issued phones were instructed to use the app sparingly, according to a former national security official who served in the administration." https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation…

It's too bad that this is being downvoted - swiftymon is trying to provide some context. It's useful to the discussion and well sourced. I'd love to read counterarguments rather than have this fade away :)

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#352

Post by BurningFrog »

basisword wrote: post #336
PokestarFan wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's going to arrest them?

This is why you have a constitution, codified laws, judicial system, separation of powers, etc. We're just learning now none of these things are worth the paper they're written on.

[flagged]

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#354

Post by groby_b »

bamboozled wrote: post #341
basisword wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why you have a constitution, codified laws, judicial system, separation of powers, etc. We're just learning now none of these things are worth the paper they're written on.

Would you say that was always the case, or just a more recent development?

Our entire civilization has always rested on a tacit "it's nice to have civilization, so we play by the rules" by everybody involved. Voluntary restraint is what keeps us from being animals, not nature or laws.

As Hobbes wrote so eloquently, we keep that compact because the alternative is "continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short"

We're currently exploring how many of those rules are really necessary, and, as a society, have decided to mostly shrug off that exploration.

That is the part that's changed. A willingness to ignore the rules by some, and a collective shrug by most.

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#355

Post by themaninthedark »

burkaman wrote: post #64
neverokay wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DoD or Pentagon don’t have their own messaging apps? Maybe our government doesn’t spend enough on tech. To me this is the same as if this were happening on Zoom or Discord, since these are not exactly world war level apps. Finally, the echoes of Dr Strangelove are strong with this one. A veritable board room of talking heads that don’t ever really talk about life or death, but just the material numbers of raw com…

Of course they do, but you can't set official government apps to illegally delete messages after a week. Edit: Seems like they are supposed to use Microsoft Teams https://dodcio.defense.gov/Portals/0/Documents/Library/Memo-... . Also - > When mission needs or the effective conduct of DoD business cannot be adequately supported by Microsoft Teams Chat, SMS texting may be used in accordance with DoDI 8170.01. In such c…

Weren't they told to stop using SMS due to Salt Typhoon?

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#356

Post by piva00 »

aubanel wrote: post #312
throw0101c wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But her e-mails." > It’s best to understand that fascists see hypocrisy as a virtue. It’s how they signal that the things they are doing to people were never meant to be equally applied. > It’s not an inconsistency. It’s very consistent to the only true fascist value, which is domination. > It’s very important to understand, fascists don’t just see hypocrisy as a necessary evil or an unintended side-effect. > It’s t…

Using the insult "Fascist" in every other sentence really diminishes whatever message was in there

When are people allowed to call this administration fascist? What's the exact line they have to cross for you to stop gatekeeping it?

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#358

Post by enceladus06 »

nunez wrote: post #157

A normal govvie sending cleared materials to unapproved recipients over unapproved channels? 20 years in federal prison. A govvie with status doing the same? A slap on the wrist. Embarrassing.

Basically confirming what we knew all along that it is security theater. IMO we should keep the nukes & drone force to secure the borders and make sure that these are competent to maintain security.

But the rest of the military/DOD/ABCD/USAID is legacy bloat left over from the cold war and should be cut. Then we can finally get rid of the income tax for most if not all of the country.

Edit: I say this as an independent who does not support either "side".

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#359

Post by andelink »

EgregiousCube wrote: post #351
swiftymon wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not unauthorized use of signal; "Government officials have used Signal for organizational correspondence, such as scheduling sensitive meetings, but in the Biden administration, people who had permission to download it on their White House-issued phones were instructed to use the app sparingly, according to a former national security official who served in the administration." https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation…

It's too bad that this is being downvoted - swiftymon is trying to provide some context. It's useful to the discussion and well sourced. I'd love to read counterarguments rather than have this fade away :)

TFA article discusses how officials have long used Signal for routine logistics, contrasting that with the national defense plans being discussed in a group chat with a journalist

Re: U.S. national-security leaders included me in a group chat

#360

Post by [deleted] »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #115
anigbrowl wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SO much for 'the most transparent administration in history', not that I bought into that claim in the first place. Seems like a violation of multiple public record-keeping laws.

Please FOIA the administration's process for meeting records requirements while using Signal. People need to call them out on this or nothing happens.

[deleted]
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