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I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#391

Post by AnthonyMouse »

varjag wrote: post #378
powersnail wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to know whether this actually deters thieves. Anecdotally, from what I heard, it seems that phone stealing is very much still a thing in areas with active pickpocketing.

When five years ago thieves broke into my sons' class locker room, they stole all android phones and cash but didn't bother to take iphones. So yes it works or at least it did back then.

This isn't really consistent with the theft statistics, e.g. 68.6% of stolen phones are iPhones[1] (in the UK where they have ~44% market share). This is presumably because of higher resale value etc., but the premise that nobody cares to steal them anymore evidently hasn't panned out.

[1] https://www.loveitcoverit.com/news/changing-world/mobile-pho...

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#392

Post by alpaca128 »

hansvm wrote: post #195
theturtletalks wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will never buy anything Bosch again after reading this thread. What other reason could Bosch have for hiding this functionality behind a website and user account if not to monetize it down the line or worse, bring more of the functionality behind a paywall. We already saw what happened with HP charging to print and even the recent Chromecast outage where something that should be handled locally is pinging back to G…

> pinging back to Google and then working I still have a bricked Android phone from nonsense like that. If you: 1. Factory reset the phone while not logged in to the last Google account on the phone 2. Have the Google account invalidated (e.g., using an identity verification app on a temp noogler account, ...) You'll never be able to access the phone again. The "factory reset" maintains some internal state despite a…

Sounds like "Find My" on iPhones which is apparently meant as theft protection: as long as it's enabled the device will not accept activation with any other account even after a factory reset as long as the owner doesn't input their password and disable the feature.

A lot of buyers of used iPhones and Macbooks find that out the hard way, often because the owners don't even know about that. And actual thieves don't need to care about it as long as they find a buyer who doesn't know about it either.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#393

Post by AnthonyMouse »

meindnoch wrote: post #389
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still not clear how this requires Apple to do anything or why it should have anything to do with any cloud service. The IMEI is burned into the phone. They should definitely make it hard to change the IMEI; but they do. If the phone is stolen then the IMEI gets reported as stolen and anyone who tries to activate the phone with a wireless carrier gets caught. Why does Apple or Google need to inconvenience people…

IMEI blacklisting is not worldwide. The phone can still be used in other countries. Also, rogue carrier employees are selling IMEI blacklist removal as a side gig on the black market.

Isn't this the same problem either way? The enterprising criminal can take a low level job at Apple rather than a low level job at a carrier, which is presumably one of the reasons it hasn't actually worked.

And if the problem is that each country is using a different IMEI blacklist then that seems like an obvious thing to fix. There are already treaties and agreements which is how the global phone network operates to begin with, or you could have US law enforcement set up a system to submit the IMEI to each of the individual blacklists.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#394

Post by TeMPOraL »

My personal take: no, I won't connect my dishwasher - or any other appliance - to your stupid cloud, nor will I use your dog-shit garbage app. I will, however, consider buying your "Internet of Shit"-enabled appliance, if I know there's a working integration for Home Assistant.

"Smart" features are nice when done well. Like e.g. through Home Assistant. Companies could make them that good, even better, but they all universally see IoT as a trick for plausibly-deniable planned obsolescence and to get people used to subscription model for home appliances. As a result, the apps are usually pile of garbage, slapped together on the cheap by some random outsourcing company.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#395

Post by rightbyte »

TuringTest wrote: post #370
schobi wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be great if a universal standard existed for devices sending their diagnosis via audio? If there is a microcontroller and a beeper in there anyway, at only the extra cost of internal memory? Instead of a modem-type modulation and a speaker, make use of the bare minimum piezo beepers and send something that is universally understood? All of that without FCC, no extra hardware cost, no backchannel und thus…

> Yea - I know. Works much better to upsell "wifi enabled" A good marketer could give a catchy name to sell the advantages of that system too. Top of my head I can think of "near-fi", but certainly could be done better.

"Spyware and asbestos free"

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#396

Post by fortran77 »

kube-system wrote: post #174
consp wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I specifically told the salesperson I didn't want wifi, and they told me it's only if you want it to operate from your phone. Don't know where you are but in most countries that would be a valid reason to return it at any time you found it out. They lied to get your money, willfully is almost never a requirement.

Yeah, misrepresentation is basic contract law stuff that would be generally valid in the US too, but: 1. there's probably no evidence of it 2. the workers at the store will deny it 3. the workers at the store likely have no grasp of contract law and will insist on whatever their store policy is 4. hiring a lawyer to return a dishwasher is a waste of time for most anyone knowledgable enough to know that this is a vali…

Usually contracts say that the entire contract is contained within the four corners of the document and anything the salesman tells you isn’t a contract.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#397

Post by alpaca128 »

kube-system wrote: post #295
jenadine wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not a paywall You pay with your data

Nobody uses the word that way. You give HN the ability to use all user-contributed data. Nobody would say HN is paywalled.

It's true that the companies wouldn't want you to use the word "pay", but that's what it is.

When you register at HN you know that they need some data to manage your user account, for the same reason cookie banners aren't needed if all of a site's cookies are required for it to function. A dishwasher doesn't need a wifi connection or data to clean dishes, and if it's not clearly advertised before purchase that's effectively a hidden cost.

Perhaps nobody uses the word like that so far, but if enough people did it probably would turn out better for the consumer.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#398

Post by SirHumphrey »

nextos wrote: post #239
criddell wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked, commercial dishwashers are very loud. I’ll trade some longevity for an appliance that is easier to live with.

Miele has some home dishwashers that are not too different from their commercial models. Really spartan and silent. A knob and two buttons, or a couple of buttons and a led display. The price is also not too bad, around €750.

I have been gravitating towards Miele more and more in recent years. Yes, they are expensive but at least they tend to work a bit - something I can’t say anymore for previously reliable brands like Bosch.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#399

Post by aequitas »

Seems like this Home Connect stuff does support local only/no cloud mode[0]. I recently discovered my parent's kitchen hardware is all Bosch with Home Connect and was afraid I had to run it through their cloud. But there seems to be some decent effort done in getting it to work with Home Assistant[1].

[0] https://trmm.net/homeconnect/ [1] https://github.com/hcpy2-0/hcpy

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#400

Post by willyt »

I was quite surprised to discover that I couldn’t interact at all with my home battery without internet. I wanted to see how much power is left in it during a power cut but because in a power cut there’s no internet the app didn’t work. Interestingly the cell tower goes out after about two hours of power out and the landline goes after about 9 hours so I didn’t realise until quite far in that this would happen.
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