Live data from Hacker News

Rickover's Lessons

chinatalk.media

61–70 of 103 posts

Re: Rickover's Lessons

#61
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He doesn't like the architecture you chose? You're gone. He finds issues in the code of one of your subordinates? That subordinate is gone and you are too. I doubt it would have been that severe unless it was a recurring thing. But it does bring to mind a story told by the USS Enterprise's then-chief engineer, about an episode before my own time aboard. Back in the day, there was a "billet" (org-chart position) kno…

Wait how are there two answers to this? Is shaft length not a well specified term?

The question "how long is your shaft" also has a more, um, personal answer ....

Re: Rickover's Lessons

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He died in 1986, so everything in the Virginia program happened well after his death. His forced retirement in 1982 was largely because he made a lot of political enemies by making a stink about General Dynamic's flaws in workmanship on the Los Angeles class. His whole management style was to push for accountability and sweat the details. I think what you're country is seeing is general flaws in quality for basically…

Rickover's final testimony to congress in 1982 speaks about this: Corporate Power A preoccupation with the so-called bottom line of profit and loss statements, coupled with a lust for expansion, is creating an environment in which fewer businessmen honor traditional values; where responsibility is increasingly disassociated from the the exercise of power; where skill in financial manipulation is valued more than actu…

“Show me the incentive, and I'll show you the outcome.” -- Charlie Munger

In other words, if you want to solve a problem you need to align the incentives. If you don't your solution is likely to fail, especially on larger scales.

Re: Rickover's Lessons

#63

I'm a former USN Submariner, Nuclear Electronics Technician, and served from 2006 - 2016. Boy do I have some thoughts. Not all quotes here are from TFA, some are from various speeches he gave. > Free discussion requires an atmosphere unembarrassed by any suggestion of authority or even respect. This has always been an interesting idea to implement at tech companies. I've not yet been reprimanded for it, but I have de…

> Rickover understood that in order to operate things, you have to understand how they work....

"Tech largely operated in this manner for decades by necessity. If you asked how to do something, you were told to RTFM. If you instead said, "I read section x.y.z but don't understand what it means," there was a much better chance of someone offering guidance. The onus was on you to understand enough of your current layer to apply it to the abstraction above. Instead, we now have vibe coding, and people pushing PRs having neither written nor tested any of the code. We have people copy/pasting error messages into Slack and asking what they mean, instead of taking the 10 seconds required to read it. We have people who have successfully memorized Leetcode, but who can't apply any of that knowledge to real-world problems."

More than a rant, that is an idea that needs to be more fully developed. For now, it's worth thinking about how tools such as Google, Stack Overflow and now LLMs have made it possible for system complexity to exceed what the people working on it can understand. There used to be an effective upper limit on API complexity from the limits of the human brain. That's been passed. This may or may not be a good thing.

Re: Rickover's Lessons

#64

President Carter served under Admiral Rickover. He was even sent to lead the cleanup of a reactor meltdown. https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history/2025/february/c...

Yeah Carter was a really sound guy. Smart and honest. Even after leaving the presidency he negotiated for peace all over the world. I think he doesn't deserve the bad rep he got. If there's anyone who could have made America "great" it's him. Of course I'm not American so I know I'm butting in where I don't belong..

His presidency was a shambles.

But Carter is far and away the 2nd best ex-president the US ever had (Geo. Washington gets the 1st place nod for choosing to set the custom)

Re: Rickover's Lessons

#65

I'm a former USN Submariner, Nuclear Electronics Technician, and served from 2006 - 2016. Boy do I have some thoughts. Not all quotes here are from TFA, some are from various speeches he gave. > Free discussion requires an atmosphere unembarrassed by any suggestion of authority or even respect. This has always been an interesting idea to implement at tech companies. I've not yet been reprimanded for it, but I have de…

Another previous Submarine Nuclear ET here. I agree with you, and it's interesting to look back and realize how many of my outspoken opinions and ideals are simply due to internalizing Rickover's Philosophies. I agree with them, sometimes to my detriment. I actually had to leave both the Submarine and Nuclear world after an injury, but stayed on in the Aviation and Expeditionary Warfare world until I hit 22 years. I…

You and I are fully aligned with your example bugbear, fellow Bubblehead.

Re: Rickover's Lessons

#66
post #53
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a quip about organizing sales orgs that resonates with me: Expect every salesperson in your company to optimize their own compensation. If you want to change their behavior, then change your sales compensation plan to drive the behavior you want. I don't think this is appreciated enough at the management and CEO level of engineering-based companies. How many engineering-tied metrics were explicitly part of Bo…

Sales organizations are often the most game-theoretic rational folks in an organization: a large fraction of their compensation is directly attributable to recent efforts. That doesn't make them honest or efficient or trustworthy, just canny and responsive. By way of contrast, operations can only be seen negatively (if things are working, that's normal, and if things are not, that's bad) and development usually has c…

This is why founder mode "works".. it is a way to overcome game theory* .

(I hope that does not mean that resurrecting George Washington is necessary)

*At least in the von Neumann-Morgenstern style

Re: Rickover's Lessons

#67
His bust is at the entrance of the engineering building, Ricker Hall, at USNA.

The nose is a bright gold-ish hue against the brown of the rest as the Midshipment rub it for luck on their way to exams.

Which never afforded me much, alas.

Re: Rickover's Lessons

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" People will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel, " as Maya Angelou has it. Rickover, for all his delivery talents, apparently made a good proportion of people feel like shit.

i don't think that's really it. he was hated because of his interactions with his superiors, not generally because of how he treated people below him.

The quote applies to everyone!

Re: Rickover's Lessons

#69
I'd have to go back and look through back issues of the New London Day to get any details, but having grown up in the area (graduated high school in '82) I seem to recall that he may have stayed in his position for a number of years past his sell-by date.

Re: Rickover's Lessons

#70

President Carter served under Admiral Rickover. He was even sent to lead the cleanup of a reactor meltdown. https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history/2025/february/c...

Yeah Carter was a really sound guy. Smart and honest. Even after leaving the presidency he negotiated for peace all over the world. I think he doesn't deserve the bad rep he got. If there's anyone who could have made America "great" it's him. Of course I'm not American so I know I'm butting in where I don't belong..

He was in over his head as President, but he was still a good man, which is more than many other ex-Presidents from both parties could say.
Post reply on HN