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The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

meghanboilard.substack.com

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Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#181

Post by yannis »

eschulz wrote: post #120
damnitbuilds wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The British Museum saved many artifacts which would have been destroyed by various nutty religious types ( a' la Greens ) over the centuries. In doing so, I doubt that they broke any export regulations. And entrance to the British Museum is free, for everyone.

Not taking any sides other than that of conservation, do you think it's possible that the Greens have already saved many artifacts from nutty religious types like ISIS, and that their efforts will continue to do so in the future?

No they did not. They are just encouraging and creating an illegal market. The US also lacked proper laws against the importation of antiquities. For all we know it could have come into the states on a military plane and ISIS would have nothing to do with it. No museum worth its salt, with professional curators and staff would have accepted such a "loot" and as a matter of fact also reputable auctioneers. In any case it is important to study artifacts in the context where they were found, stratigraphy, nearby archaeological sites etc.

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#182

Post by yannis »

alwa wrote: post #145
eschulz wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not taking any sides other than that of conservation, do you think it's possible that the Greens have already saved many artifacts from nutty religious types like ISIS, and that their efforts will continue to do so in the future?

I mean I’m not a conservator of ancient artifacts, but the pictures [0] of them dunking mummy masks in dish water to decompose them so they could check whether they were made with scrap bible papyrus… those did make my stomach turn a little. Felt a little closer to desecration that preservation. [0] TFA links to https://www.slideshare.net/slideshow/dead-men-tell-tales/148...

It makes me sick also. The Greens are nutcases. As for the mummy mask, what they did is criminal.

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#183

Post by gowld »

chuckadams wrote: post #157
gadders wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there was debate about this in the UK. If a disabled person can only do one widget per hour, and an able-bodied can do 10, what is the correct wage for that disabled person? If you think they should both be paid the same, who should pay the additional cost?

> If you think they should both be paid the same, who should pay the additional cost? The taxpayer, in the form of a direct wage subsidy. Comes out to virtually nothing compared to the amount of corporate welfare we shovel out every day. The company still isn't compelled to hire the disabled person if they won't be effective on the job, but companies that were inclined to hire them before still will, pay the same amo…

As mentioned on this very thread, "such a thing" is exactly what happens "here", but without you impractical demand to track the productivity of a worker with government-recognized sub-par productivity.

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#184

Post by giraffe_lady »

armchairhacker wrote: post #63
themaninthedark wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author's tone is...definitely not neutral and it make it hard to believe them when they put pure conjecture in: "Between the high demand and likely paying workers a subminimum wage" with footnote "...While this practice was completely legal (current federal law permits employers to pay disabled workers a fraction of minimum wage), it’s certainly questionable practice coming from a guy whose entire schtick revolve…

Although it sounds very bad, there’s actually a good argument for paying disabled workers below-minimum wage: - Disabled people get paid (what is supposed to be, but not actually, a living wage) by the government, so they aren’t living on the wage. - No company would hire them if they were forced to pay minimum wage, because companies are greedy and would always hire a more productive non-disabled worker. - Many disa…

idk I read all that and it still sounds very bad to me.

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#185

Post by MrMcCall »

gadders wrote: post #90
MrMcCall wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Are you a Christian?

"There's God's side and the other side." --Katt Williams

Forms of religion are not important compared to effortful compassion that seeks to help others suffer less and enjoy more happiness.

God always looks into our heart, for the soul's heart is where our moral compass resides. That is what we must nurture, evolve, and -- above all -- question on the spiritual path. We must find our vices and transmute them into their corresponding virtues, all 19 of them.

We are all one human race, with one Creator, and one ability to manifest loving compassion, if we are adamant in our desire to become better citizens of this blessed Earth.

Rememember that that serviceful compassion is required for every human infant to survive and thrive. It is also required for successful societies and cultures of any and all sizes. That such boundaryless compassion is sorely lacking is the source of ALL this world's problems.

We will do well to focus on the commonalities of our positive potential, over our obvious differences. We are commanded to not break into separate groups, as the mammals -- our physical body's template -- do.

Most religious thinking revolves around their false belief that they are the only "chosen" path or people. That is the single biggest "tell" that they are on the destructive, selfish path of prideful ignorance, which also tends towards callous cruelty towards whichever out-groups they define.

Always love. Even one's enemies. Even as their power to harm others is stripped from them. Hope that their defeat helps them realize their grave mistakes and helps them turn towards the light. But know that our love for the oppressed must be of a different nature than that which we reserve for the oppressors. Such is the nature of the responsibility we have for this loving grace.

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#186

Post by giraffe_lady »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #104
doug_durham wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes deeper than their "faith". These are the people who took away healthcare benefits from all Americans because they didn't personally want to fund birth control and women's health. It's reductive to say that the author looks negatively on the family because of their faith alone.

These are the people who took away healthcare benefits from all Americans because they didn't personally want to fund birth control and women's health. This is not true though.. Most Americans have these benefits. Hobby Lobby just pushed for an extension of the existing Religious exemption to also apply closely held businesses. It affected a tiny portion of the population.

It's not wise or historically accurate to consider these unrelated projects, or their goals unknowable. If you found it important to argue for it that way in 2017 I would call it naive, for doing it now I call you complicit.

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#187

Post by gadders »

MrMcCall wrote: post #185
gadders wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you a Christian?

"There's God's side and the other side." --Katt Williams Forms of religion are not important compared to effortful compassion that seeks to help others suffer less and enjoy more happiness. God always looks into our heart, for the soul's heart is where our moral compass resides. That is what we must nurture, evolve, and -- above all -- question on the spiritual path. We must find our vices and transmute them into the…

That's a no then.

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#188

Post by watwut »

ultimafan wrote: post #152
watwut wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They literally vote for the most insulting person available, again and again. If anything, Trumps winning twice and conservatives in general getting votes is that being polite and nice is completely failing strategy. Democrats and centrists were nice and respectful for years while conservative were increasingly insulting ... and increasingly oversensitive creating outrages over nothing. This demand for one sided nice…

>Democrats and centrists were nice and respectful for years This is only really true on the political level, not the cultural/social level. Politicians on the left have been significantly more respectful than their counterparts for a long time now. But the same can't really be said for the sentiments of their voter base or the media/education curated towards them. For a large amount of people what they see and experi…

[dead]

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#189

Post by lutusp »

g-b-r wrote: post #77
lutusp wrote: post #28

> The fifth of six children fathered by Rev. Walter Green, God has always been at the forefront of Hobby Lobby patriarch David Green’s life. Imagine having a family of ordinary children, plus God. And yes, the remainder of the article confirms the promise of this gaffe. Two more examples: > This begs an obvious question. That's not what "begging the question" actually means. > or participating in anything the Reveran…

> > The fifth of six children fathered by Rev. Walter Green, God has always been at the forefront of Hobby Lobby patriarch David Green’s life. > Imagine having a family of ordinary children, plus God. And yes, the remainder of the article confirms the promise of this gaffe. Imagine not being able to parse a sentence. > > This begs an obvious question. > That's not what "begging the question" actually means. If you're…

>> Imagine having a family of ordinary children, plus God. And yes, the remainder of the article confirms the promise of this gaffe.

> Imagine not being able to parse a sentence.

It was up to the author to parse the sentence in advance of posting it. And competent writers don't invite such obvious double meanings -- they undermine the value of the essay.

>> That's not what "begging the question" actually means.

> If you're referring to the logical fallacy, as a foreign English speaker it's the first time I hear about that "begging the question" sense.

Expressions change over time, but normally by consensus. Without consensus, one is entitled to wonder whether the writer knows what the expression means.

>> What -- in 2025, no spell checker?

> The horror

Some writers don't need a spell checker. Others require it.

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#190

Post by Digory »

Fluorescence wrote: post #45
Digory wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s fine to be inexperienced with Christianity, but it skews the reporting. For example “kingdom giver” is not someone who gives kingdoms, it’s someone who gives to Christ’s kingdom. But the widow and her mite is an example of kingdom giving as much as the Greens.

>> someone who gives kingdoms The article doesn't claim that so it seems your Christian sensitivities have skewed your reading comprehension. It's referencing a Forbes article using the term to distinguish between thoughtless arbitrary giving vs. giving with purpose: "Even the most generous Christian philanthropists often don't see the purpose of their giving," says Dr. Mark Rutland, the new ORU president and founder…

The sentence from the article is:

"While the total amount the Greens have made in charitable contributions has been kept private, former Oral Roberts University president Dr. Mark Rutland may have worded it best when he described the family as “kingdom givers”.

It doesn't link to the Forbes article's definition. Without more, I'd read that sentence to say "Kingdom givers" is a descriptor of the total amounts given by the Greens -- we don't know the amount, but they give kingdoms.

As I explained above, "Kingdom" is unrelated to the size of the gift, as made clear from the quote you cited.

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