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Rickover's Lessons

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11–20 of 103 posts

Re: Rickover's Lessons

#11
post #2

We don't have time machines and so can't re-run the experiment. I've read biographies of Rickover and not all people who lived through this time are complementary. It's certainly true the strategic arms processes and nuclear submarine engineering benefited in a long term view. I just find myself asking if the US army recruiting tag line Be The Best You Can Be was really met, or if Rickover achieved what might be more…

> I just find myself asking if the US army recruiting tag line Be The Best You Can Be was really met

Why would an army saying be relevant to an Admiral in the Navy?

Re: Rickover's Lessons

#13
post #8
post #5

Um. I don't know how many people on HN have served and heard of Rickover? But I'm pretty sure most people on HN could not function in a Rickover style management context. It gets things done, but it's not terribly polite about going about getting them done. To the article's credit, it does touch on this aspect of his management style. But engineers today are from the Millennial or GenZ generations. A lot of that just…

> I don't know how many people on HN have served and heard of Rickover? But I'm pretty sure most people on HN could not function in a Rickover style management context. It gets things done, but it's not terribly polite about going about getting them done. Ex-Navy nuke here; I had to interview with the KOG [*] to get into The Program. My guess is that most people on HN would do fine in a Rickover-style program — albei…

> [*] KOG = Kindly Old Gentleman: Of those four things, he was at most two.

I must not be hip to the joke. What's the fourth thing?

Re: Rickover's Lessons

#14
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know how many people on HN have served and heard of Rickover? But I'm pretty sure most people on HN could not function in a Rickover style management context. It gets things done, but it's not terribly polite about going about getting them done. Ex-Navy nuke here; I had to interview with the KOG [*] to get into The Program. My guess is that most people on HN would do fine in a Rickover-style program — albei…

> [*] KOG = Kindly Old Gentleman: Of those four things, he was at most two. I must not be hip to the joke. What's the fourth thing?

> I must not be hip to the joke. What's the fourth thing?

Kindly. Old. Gentle. Man.

Re: Rickover's Lessons

#15
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know how many people on HN have served and heard of Rickover? But I'm pretty sure most people on HN could not function in a Rickover style management context. It gets things done, but it's not terribly polite about going about getting them done. Ex-Navy nuke here; I had to interview with the KOG [*] to get into The Program. My guess is that most people on HN would do fine in a Rickover-style program — albei…

> [*] KOG = Kindly Old Gentleman: Of those four things, he was at most two. I must not be hip to the joke. What's the fourth thing?

Probably breaking it down into [ kindly, old, gentle, man ]

Re: Rickover's Lessons

#16
post #5

Um. I don't know how many people on HN have served and heard of Rickover? But I'm pretty sure most people on HN could not function in a Rickover style management context. It gets things done, but it's not terribly polite about going about getting them done. To the article's credit, it does touch on this aspect of his management style. But engineers today are from the Millennial or GenZ generations. A lot of that just…

> He doesn't like the architecture you chose? You're gone. He finds issues in the code of one of your subordinates? That subordinate is gone and you are too.

I doubt it would have been that severe unless it was a recurring thing. But it does bring to mind a story told by the USS Enterprise's then-chief engineer, about an episode before my own time aboard. Back in the day, there was a "billet" (org-chart position) known as the "shaft officer"; those were experienced, mid-level officers, as in, late 20s to early 30s in age. Each shaft officer oversaw (IIRC) one of the ship's four propellers and its shaft, along with the specific engine room and two nuclear reactors that drove the shaft.

(Enterprise had a total of eight nuclear reactors in four numbered "plants"; each shaft officer would have been roughly equivalent to the chief engineer of a single-plant ship.)

During one Rickover visit to the Enterprise, an officer is introduced to him as the shaft officer for 3 plant. Rickover immediately asks, "You're the shaft officer? How long is your shaft?" The shaft officer could have given either of two possible answers — and either answer would have saved him — but he "failed open" and couldn't answer. Rickover supposedly de-nuked him on the spot.

Re: Rickover's Lessons

#17
post #2

We don't have time machines and so can't re-run the experiment. I've read biographies of Rickover and not all people who lived through this time are complementary. It's certainly true the strategic arms processes and nuclear submarine engineering benefited in a long term view. I just find myself asking if the US army recruiting tag line Be The Best You Can Be was really met, or if Rickover achieved what might be more…

He died in 1986, so everything in the Virginia program happened well after his death. His forced retirement in 1982 was largely because he made a lot of political enemies by making a stink about General Dynamic's flaws in workmanship on the Los Angeles class. His whole management style was to push for accountability and sweat the details.

I think what you're country is seeing is general flaws in quality for basically everything American-made these days. Which, if I'm being totally blunt, are because Americans are lazy and don't care about quality and basically do the minimum that won't get them fired. Hell, I started my career caring about quality and craftmanship and now I do the minimum that won't get me fired too, because there's no point busting your ass for some lazy manager up the chain to take credit for it.

Re: Rickover's Lessons

#18
post #5

Um. I don't know how many people on HN have served and heard of Rickover? But I'm pretty sure most people on HN could not function in a Rickover style management context. It gets things done, but it's not terribly polite about going about getting them done. To the article's credit, it does touch on this aspect of his management style. But engineers today are from the Millennial or GenZ generations. A lot of that just…

I see what you're saying, but as soon as you go in the direction of "engineers today are from the Millennial or GenZ" I'm writing you off. My boomer parents were spoiled little snowflakes. I spent six years operating Rickover's reactors on US Navy submarines. I actually served on the boat that finally got Rickover fired. So I'm very qualified to say that this has absolutely nothing to do with generational pampering. Rickover's methods wouldn't work anywhere outside of the Navy during the Cold War because even there they were considered draconian and extreme (and generally nutty), and in most of the rest of the world a boss isn't allowed to literally put their employees in jail for any reason they make up.

Re: Rickover's Lessons

#20
post #5

Um. I don't know how many people on HN have served and heard of Rickover? But I'm pretty sure most people on HN could not function in a Rickover style management context. It gets things done, but it's not terribly polite about going about getting them done. To the article's credit, it does touch on this aspect of his management style. But engineers today are from the Millennial or GenZ generations. A lot of that just…

My favorite style is his style and I wish it was more pervasive in the tech sector. At the same time, I understand it’s not practical in today’s society in a practical sense.
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