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European Cloud, Global Reach

upcloud.com

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Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#81

Post by graemep »

rustc wrote: post #76
mpenet wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there’s any hardware issue on your dedicated box it might take a lot of time until your box gets back up (hours, days…). On a vps it’s less likely to happen in the first place (hvs are usually better quality) and if that happens migration takes minutes.

The prices mentioned in the top comment are for a Hetzner VPS. A dedicated server (bare metal) on Hetzner with the same specs costs a fraction of that price.

I itnerprested "dedi" as dedicated server, not dedicated vCPU.

It is very cheap, but it is also a lot cheaper than most VPS providers.

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#82

Post by hap_stark »

UpCloud works well enough. In our experience, the available features work very reliably (for half a decade now). There are a few rough edges here and there during configuration. On the other hand, some things went smoother and faster than on one of the big hyperscalers. Simplicity can be a feature in itself...

One thing not mentioned yet: We had very good experience multiple times with technical support, being available 24/7, doing proper hand-offs and getting back to us if an issue wasn't resolved, and being technically knowledgeable.

And there are always humans on the other side which can be talked to. (Looking at you, MS for org validation for trusted signing ...)

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#83

Post by graemep »

graemep wrote: post #24
breakingcups wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that, but their login page / dashboard is hosted on the same IP, also through Cloudflare.

I had not noticed that. Thanks. Not good.

I think I will be moving the stuff I have on Upcloud elsewhere!

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#84

Post by graemep »

csomar wrote: post #37
graemep wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is only for their public site. The US provider has a European presence (the error page is clear I am seeing Cloudflare London). Started working for me while typing this.

How does that make it any better?

Because if the actual services they used were not going through cloudflare then it would not really matter to users.

It turns out their management web UI (for orders etc.) also goes through cloudflare so that is a potential problem (and I now plan to switch away from Upcloud for that reason - its silly to route that through Cloudflare).

That said, their servers and their managent are in Europe.

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#85

Post by rustc »

scandox wrote: post #48

There's a lot of negativity and nit picking here. Upcloud are OK, Hetzner are better in my opinion for a lot of things. Nothing is perfect and European providers need to start somewhere. We all know there are tradeoffs and limitations but there's no need for a pile on.

I wouldn't call pointing straight up lies as "nit picking".

This is from their FAQ: https://upcloud.com/products/zero-cost-egress

> What exactly does zero-cost egress mean?

> We are eliminating any concerns over data transfer fees. This means you’ll enjoy Internet traffic from our cloud services without any fear of accumulating costs.

> How does this differentiate UpCloud from competitors?

> By pioneering the zero-cost egress model, we’re not just changing the game for UpCloud; we’re challenging the entire cloud industry to reevaluate their pricing models and spearhead the industry towards predictable budgeting on cloud computing costs.

While the actual bandwidth limit (https://upcloud.com/fair-transfer-policy) is the same as DigitalOcean and at least an order of magnitude lower than other EU providers like OVH and Hetzner.

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#86

Post by Aeolun »

sofixa wrote: post #39
o_m wrote: post #29

What they don't mention is that some of their data centers are delivered by Equinix, an American company, so it doesn't matter that it is in Finland (same with Sweden and Poland). It is inherently insecure if you are trying to get away from USA. https://upcloud.com/data-centers

Equinix only provide the physical space and power, and things can be set up with them not even having physical access to your room/cage, other than forcing it (which would be visible). While they could be an attack vector, with modern hardware even having physical access is not a guarantee to having access to the data (TPM2 and disk encryption are trivial to set up). The risk is much lower than e.g. AWS.

Sorta, but it’s like saying that using Chinese equipment for your telecommunications infrastructure is fine.

It’s not a great thing to have your infra hosted anywhere that can be legally compelled by a US government.

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#87

Post by ivan_gammel »

janmo wrote: post #74
sofixa wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Furthermore, in the EU there is not something such as the 4th amendment, Law Enforcement and Intelligence agencies can grab your cloud data without requiring a warrant. Unless the data is stored in the US, which is one of the reasons they are so eager to keep it "home You're commenting under an article that explicitly says how US intelligence agencies and police get around the need for warrants. Many rights in the…

Look at the technique they used with Silk Road: "Because the SR Server was located outside the United States, the Fourth Amendment would not have required a warrant to search the server, whether for its IP address or otherwise." - Assistant US Attorney Serrin Turner

To me this statement only makes sense if it explains why an American law enforcement agency can hack a foreign server without an American warrant. And it just demonstrates the limits of American privacy protection.

If you think this was about European legal system, you are mistaken. If Americans were hacking European servers without due process involving European authorities, this was probably highly illegal here.

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#88

Post by bittermandel »

rustc wrote: post #85
scandox wrote: post #48

There's a lot of negativity and nit picking here. Upcloud are OK, Hetzner are better in my opinion for a lot of things. Nothing is perfect and European providers need to start somewhere. We all know there are tradeoffs and limitations but there's no need for a pile on.

I wouldn't call pointing straight up lies as "nit picking". This is from their FAQ: https://upcloud.com/products/zero-cost-egress > What exactly does zero-cost egress mean? > We are eliminating any concerns over data transfer fees. This means you’ll enjoy Internet traffic from our cloud services without any fear of accumulating costs. > How does this differentiate UpCloud from competitors? > By pioneering the zero-co…

What do you mean? It is still free, just at a lowered speed. Calling it lies is hyperbolic.

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#89

Post by janmo »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #52
janmo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for pointing that out! I would add that intelligence agencies and law enforcement are almost completely exempt from all those fancy GDPR requirements. Furthermore, in the EU, there is no such a strong equivalent to the 4th Amendment. Law enforcement and intelligence agencies can access your cloud data without needing a warrant—unless the data is stored in the US in which case a US judge would have to approv…

Your comment needs some serious fact checking. For example, Encrochat backdoor was authorized by judge, so there was a due process. And it was not an ordinary customer.

The fact that this was "due process" and "legal" makes the matter even worse IMO.

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#90

Post by hnbad »

graemep wrote: post #4
sschueller wrote: post #2

> At UpCloud, we are committed to complying with European data protection laws and compliance with ISO 27001. This international standard not only signifies our dedication to maintaining a high level of information security but also ensures that we adhere to recognized best practices in managing and safeguarding your data. If you want to be Europe only that includes not terminating your SSL at a US CDN provider like…

That is only for their public site. The US provider has a European presence (the error page is clear I am seeing Cloudflare London). Started working for me while typing this.

European presences of US providers are still US providers with all the implications of that for privacy, applicability of US laws, government interference and a potential trade war.
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