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European Cloud, Global Reach

upcloud.com

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Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#41

Post by Iulioh »

ohgr wrote: post #22
rustc wrote: post #16

This is a strange page: https://upcloud.com/products/zero-cost-egress There's "zero cost egress" mentioned all over the page but the limits on https://upcloud.com/fair-transfer-policy are comparable to other hosts like DigitalOcean: the cheapest 7 EUR VPS has a limit of 1TB of bandwidth. (For comparison, Hetzner offers 20TB on their EU VPS for under $5.) > Say goodbye to unpredictable egress costs and hello to our ze…

Yeah they’re going bankrupt in a couple of months.

Dosen't the EU Data Act prhoibit egress costs?

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#42

Post by sofixa »

janmo wrote: post #36
aborsy wrote: post #17

The only reason you may use these EU version of services is that you are in Europe. Otherwise EU is worse in terms of privacy. UK (while not officially in Europe) goes even beyond, requiring backdooor to iCloud and non-eu providers.

Thank you for pointing that out! I would add that intelligence agencies and law enforcement are almost completely exempt from all those fancy GDPR requirements. Furthermore, in the EU, there is no such a strong equivalent to the 4th Amendment. Law enforcement and intelligence agencies can access your cloud data without needing a warrant—unless the data is stored in the US in which case a US judge would have to approv…

> Furthermore, in the EU there is not something such as the 4th amendment, Law Enforcement and Intelligence agencies can grab your cloud data without requiring a warrant. Unless the data is stored in the US, which is one of the reasons they are so eager to keep it "home

You're commenting under an article that explicitly says how US intelligence agencies and police get around the need for warrants. Many rights in the US are more theoretical than practical if someone in power decides so.

Also, there are strong expectations of privacy in the EU, as well as due process, warrants, etc. There are of course abuses, and especially "terrorism" can enable some shortcuts (to be fair, often for very good reason multiple EU countries have had tens to hundreds of dead from terrorist attacks that could and should have been prevented), but I don't have the impression it's in any way even close to as bad as the US. Do you have any information/sources to the contrary?

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#43

Post by seper8 »

graemep wrote: post #28
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #14

Upcloud: 48 cores €1364/month Hetzner Dedi Cloud: 48 cores €288.49/month

You cannot really compare dedi to VPS pricing. Upcloud is similar to DO etc.

What's the real difference in the end?

Between a VPS at DO or a server at Hetzner?

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#44

Post by Snoddas »

piokoch wrote: post #21

This is missing the point. Everything they offer is storage, VPS, Load balancer, one managed key-value store and two managed databases. For the price a little higher than, say, Digital Ocean. But where is managed cache, message broker, e-mail service. It is not enough to be European, they need to offer something competitive. I guess they can win some clients, given current hostility of Europe against Trump, but what…

The trust is gone. Even if the dems win the next election, we now know that the US isn't stable enough to handle one rouge president.

With the massive cost of shifting infrastructure, those scared away by the current US administration is mostly gone for good.

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#45

Post by pkos98 »

fer wrote: post #34
confiq wrote: post #10

they have terraform [provider]( https://search.opentofu.org/provider/upcloudltd/upcloud/late... ), that is great! This is how they compare with AWS: https://upcloud.com/competitors-and-alternatives/aws

Very disingenuous comparison. The actual main gap is being closed with this: https://aws.amazon.com/compliance/europe-digital-sovereignty...

Having worked as Cloud Solution Architect at Microsoft Germany/Azure, let me tell you:

Nope this gap can not be closed by any US company alone due to the Us Patriot Act - which forces any US company (including e.g. a German subsidiary) to allow access to all data for national security purposes.

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#46

Post by sofixa »

piokoch wrote: post #21

This is missing the point. Everything they offer is storage, VPS, Load balancer, one managed key-value store and two managed databases. For the price a little higher than, say, Digital Ocean. But where is managed cache, message broker, e-mail service. It is not enough to be European, they need to offer something competitive. I guess they can win some clients, given current hostility of Europe against Trump, but what…

> Everything they offer is storage, VPS, Load balancer, one managed key-value store and two managed databases. For the price a little higher than, say, Digital Ocean. But where is managed cache, message broker, e-mail service. It is not enough to be European, they need to offer something competitive

And don't forget managed Kubernetes. You can get pretty far with the services they provide and the Kubernetes ecosystem.

For a more complete offering, check out Scaleway - French, regions in a couple of locations, and a wide array of services, up to e-mail service, message broker, quantum computers, AI inference.

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#47

Post by onli »

graemep wrote: post #28
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #14

Upcloud: 48 cores €1364/month Hetzner Dedi Cloud: 48 cores €288.49/month

You cannot really compare dedi to VPS pricing. Upcloud is similar to DO etc.

Hetzner behaves pretty much like DO, with servers that can be changed in the corresponding management panel. Or what aspect do you think is different?

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#48

Post by scandox »

There's a lot of negativity and nit picking here. Upcloud are OK, Hetzner are better in my opinion for a lot of things.

Nothing is perfect and European providers need to start somewhere. We all know there are tradeoffs and limitations but there's no need for a pile on.

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#49

Post by perks_12 »

jajko wrote: post #32
piokoch wrote: post #21

This is missing the point. Everything they offer is storage, VPS, Load balancer, one managed key-value store and two managed databases. For the price a little higher than, say, Digital Ocean. But where is managed cache, message broker, e-mail service. It is not enough to be European, they need to offer something competitive. I guess they can win some clients, given current hostility of Europe against Trump, but what…

The changes happening in US are not going anywhere, and they haven't even properly started with them. Nobody knows the future but one thing is clear and set in stone - trust has been broken. If you have any life or relationship experience, you know trust is always hard to build and easy to lose. Its extremely hard and lengthy to build again once it has been shattered (which it has been already). Stab in the back is r…

> trust has been broken

By what? Tariffs?

We have known about NSA spyops for more than a decade now, with actual impact on our tech. Nobody cares. But now that trump is in office, we suddenly have an issue with the US? Ridiculous.

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#50

Post by usr1106 »

Iulioh wrote: post #41
ohgr wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah they’re going bankrupt in a couple of months.

Dosen't the EU Data Act prhoibit egress costs?

No I don't think so. You have to able to take your own data out for free. But delivering it to everybody else can be charged.

Edit: Not allowed to comment on your reply anymore. I read it as a confirmation of what I said. Charging for egress in general is allowed. Only the egress to take your own data elsewhere must be free.

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