I will never stop being amazed at AI folks' childish views of animal cognition: > A lot of your tools reference crows. What’s up with that? > White: When I got started in this space around October 2022, I was red-teaming with GPT4. Around the same time, a paper called “Language Models are Stochastic Parrots” was circulating, and people were debating whether these models were just regurgitating their training data or…
The Humans Building AI Scientists
11–20 of 28 posts
Re: The Humans Building AI Scientists
#12I will never stop being amazed at AI folks' childish views of animal cognition: > A lot of your tools reference crows. What’s up with that? > White: When I got started in this space around October 2022, I was red-teaming with GPT4. Around the same time, a paper called “Language Models are Stochastic Parrots” was circulating, and people were debating whether these models were just regurgitating their training data or…
Re: The Humans Building AI Scientists
#13I will never stop being amazed at AI folks' childish views of animal cognition: > A lot of your tools reference crows. What’s up with that? > White: When I got started in this space around October 2022, I was red-teaming with GPT4. Around the same time, a paper called “Language Models are Stochastic Parrots” was circulating, and people were debating whether these models were just regurgitating their training data or…
Western awareness still not recovered from Descartes.
Re: The Humans Building AI Scientists
#14> Rodriques: Many people assume we’re focused on wet lab automation. There are certainly opportunities there and we are exploring them, but the biggest opportunities are actually on the cognitive side. Wet lab automation is very difficult and capital intensive. And once you build your lab you are constraining yourself to answering questions within a certain domain for which you have the relevant sample prep and chara…
A lot of scientific knowledge cannot be communicated through papers. This is especially true in wet labs, where there's no procedural standardization. Keoni Gandall wrote an excellent post on this topic as it applies to synthetic bio [0]. I've experienced this first hand as a student participating in chemistry labs. Even when you're given a step by step procedure, it's impossible to predict the spacial logistics and inefficiencies you'll run into when you actually try to execute the procedure, regardless of your analytical preparation.
The other type of knowledge that is rarely communicated through papers is the informal exploratory thought process of the researcher, and their embarrassing failures/mistakes.
If I have my own lab someday, I think it would be cool if everyone wore bodycams, showing their first person view. By publishing the raw footage with the paper/code, hopefully this would help with reproducibility.
Re: The Humans Building AI Scientists
#15> Rodriques: Many people assume we’re focused on wet lab automation. There are certainly opportunities there and we are exploring them, but the biggest opportunities are actually on the cognitive side. Wet lab automation is very difficult and capital intensive. And once you build your lab you are constraining yourself to answering questions within a certain domain for which you have the relevant sample prep and chara…
For anyone who thinks this is sufficient, be aware that papers only tell you what's successful (for some definition of successful). Being part of a research community gives you access to the other side: hallway conversations at conferences and informal collaborative networks are far more candid, where people will tell you what they've tried and didn't work, or what resources they need for an ambitious study that's just out of reach for their current budget. This is also where a lot of new ideas and collaborations come from, where people come together with matching problems and solutions to new interesting questions.
I'm not sure how an AI is supposed to help with this, as research is ultimately a very social activity from my perspective.
Re: The Humans Building AI Scientists
#16Re: The Humans Building AI Scientists
#17Re: The Humans Building AI Scientists
#18I'm so incredibly tired of all of the BS claims. (I'm an AI/ML researcher) > has enabled open-source LLMs “to exceed human-level performance on two more of the lab-bench tasks: doing scientific literature research and reasoning about DNA constructs” with only “modest compute budgets.” No. They did not. They just ran a crappy experiment and came up with an absurd result. As a community we need to invest much more effo…
I'm reminded of the time I saw some A/B test results that didn't make much sense, but were highly significant[1] I asked how many A/B tests they were running... hundreds. Overlapping. At least they had a holdout group (that they mostly ignored, which indicated that all the A/B tests more or less made no difference) [1] P < 0.001 with a large effect size. No, your a/b test probably didn't break the laws of economics -…
Unless the "running concurrent tests and not correcting your significance level", is what you meant by messing up their data, in which case yeah.
Re: The Humans Building AI Scientists
#19Re: The Humans Building AI Scientists
#20I'm so incredibly tired of all of the BS claims. (I'm an AI/ML researcher) > has enabled open-source LLMs “to exceed human-level performance on two more of the lab-bench tasks: doing scientific literature research and reasoning about DNA constructs” with only “modest compute budgets.” No. They did not. They just ran a crappy experiment and came up with an absurd result. As a community we need to invest much more effo…
Under those circumstances, the evaluators had an answer precision of 73.8%, and the AI system (PaperQA2) was 85.2%. Both the evaluators and PaperQA2 could choose not to answer on a particular question. If you look at accuracy, which takes into account not answering a question, evaluators were 67.7% and PaperQA2 was 66%. So in terms of overall accuracy -- humans still did a touch better. But when actually answering, the AI was more precise.
In terms of literature synthesis comparison, I think the methodology was pretty solid too, but would love more feedback. We had PaperQA2 write cited articles for ~19k human genes, of which there are (non-stub) Wikipedia articles for ~3.9k. It's worth noting that this is a particularly technical subset of Wikipedia articles. We sampled 300 articles that were in both sources, then extracted 500 statements from each (basically a paragraph block). These statements could be compound, or even multi-sentence statements. These statements were shuffled and obfuscated such that the origin could not be determined from the statement alone.
The statements were given to a team of 4 evaluators, who were each asked to evaluate if the information was correct as cited, i.e. did the source actually support the statement. So they had to access (if they could) and actually read all the sources. After we got the evaluator gradings back, we could compile and map each statement back to its origin for comparison. Under these circumstance, the PaperQA2 written articles were 83% cited and supported, while the Wikipedia articles were 61.5% cited and supported. Wikipedia had comparatively more uncited claims, so if we eliminate those and only focus on the cited claims themselves, then PaperQA2 had 86.1% of claims that were supported by the source and Wikipedia had 71.2%. We did an analysis of every single un-supported claim, and on Wikipedia, claims are often attributed to arbitrary or really broad sources, like a landing page to a database.
(here's the paper fwiw: https://arxiv.org/abs/2409.13740)