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FOSS infrastructure is under attack by AI companies

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Re: FOSS infrastructure is under attack by AI companies

#561

Post by rectang »

joquarky wrote: post #542
rectang wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you as an individual recognizably regurgitate the essay you read, then you have infringed. If an AI model recongnizably regurgitates the essay it trained on then it has infringed. The AI argument that passing original content through an algorithm insulates the output from claims of infringement because of "fair use" is pigwash.

I'm curious how this can be applied with the inevitable combinatorial exhaustion that will happen with musical aspects such as melody, chord progression, and rhythm. Will it mean longer and longer clips are "fair use", or will we just stop making new content because it can't avoid copying patterns of the past?

More germane is that there will be a smoking gun for every infringement case: whether or not the model was trained on the original. There will be no pretending that the model never heard the piece it copied.

Re: FOSS infrastructure is under attack by AI companies

#562

Post by Ray20 »

sozforex wrote: post #555
Ray20 wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if everyone's broke >nobody's spending money on stuff like contractors, mechanics, and other hardcore blue collar trades. Why would this happen? Money is simply a medium of exchange of values that this contractors, mechanics and other hardcore blue collar trades are creating. How can they be broke, if Ai doesn't disturb their ability to create values and exchange it?

When ~white collar [researchers, programmers, managers, salespeople, translators, illustrators, ...] lose their income/jobs to AI's -> lose their ability to buy products/services and at the same time try to shift in mass to doing some kind of manual work, do you think that would not affect incomes of those who are the current blue collar class?

>do you think that would not affect incomes of those who are the current blue collar class?

Obviously it is affect. Supply of goods are increased and their relative market value are increased - how can this not increase their incomes?

Re: FOSS infrastructure is under attack by AI companies

#563

Post by sinuhe69 »

sinuhe69 wrote: post #135
ziddoap wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Copyright the content and sue those who use it for AI training. This costs money, time, and ongoing commitment. FOSS isn't typically known for being overflowing with cash.

The FOSS community can transfer their copyrights to an organisation in order to take legal action against AI operators.

I guess my post was downvoted by AI bots?! :D

Because reckless and greedy AI operators not only endanger FOSS projects, they threaten to collapse the free accessible internet as a whole as well. Sooner or later, we will need to fight for our freedom, our rights as individual human against rogue AI and the übermacht of the mega-corporations, just as we need to fight against the concentration of contents behind corporate gates today.

And I don’t any other way than going juridical against these operators. They give a sh*t about the little humans, not even copyrights and other legal regulations.

Re: FOSS infrastructure is under attack by AI companies

#564

Post by mega_dean »

joquarky wrote: post #542
rectang wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you as an individual recognizably regurgitate the essay you read, then you have infringed. If an AI model recongnizably regurgitates the essay it trained on then it has infringed. The AI argument that passing original content through an algorithm insulates the output from claims of infringement because of "fair use" is pigwash.

I'm curious how this can be applied with the inevitable combinatorial exhaustion that will happen with musical aspects such as melody, chord progression, and rhythm. Will it mean longer and longer clips are "fair use", or will we just stop making new content because it can't avoid copying patterns of the past?

> I'm curious how this can be applied with the inevitable combinatorial exhaustion that will happen with musical aspects such as melody, chord progression, and rhythm.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/musicians-algorithmically-ge...

They did this in 2020. The article points out that "Whether this tactic actually works in court remains to be seen" and I haven't been following along with the story, so I don't know the current status.

Re: FOSS infrastructure is under attack by AI companies

#565

Post by prmoustache »

tremon wrote: post #474
tecleandor wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or even worse, lots of them are using barely legal residential proxies so the requests are coming from everywhere. In Drew DeVault's article linked in this post he complained precisely about the residential-looking source IP addresses [0]. And I think I remember something about a Chinese company, some months ago, very aggressively scraping using that method. Companies like DataImpulse [1] or ScraperAPI [2] will happi…

Are these "residential proxies" assumed to be infected devices part of a botnet or malicious apps on users' phones?

I guess iot devices and mobile apps.

Unethical, definitely. Illegal, no.

Re: FOSS infrastructure is under attack by AI companies

#567

Post by quuxplusone »

maaaaattttt wrote: post #89
UncleMeat wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. And it is much more far reaching than that. Look at the primary economic claim offered by AI companies: to end the need for a substantial portion of all jobs on the planet. The entire vision is to remake the entire world into one where the owners of these companies own everything and are completely unconstrained. All intellectual property belongs to them. All labor belongs to them. Why would they need good will…

I have this line of thought as well but then I wonder, if we are all out of jobs and out of substantial capital to spend, how do these owners make money ultimately? It's a genuine question and I'm probably missing something obvious. I can see a benevolant/post-scarcity spin to this but the non-benevolant one seems self defeating.

One (satirical) answer to this question is given in Greg Egan's "The Discrete Charm of the Turing Machine" (2017). https://i.4pcdn.org/tg/1599529933107.pdf

Re: FOSS infrastructure is under attack by AI companies

#568

Post by forgetfreeman »

Ray20 wrote: post #562
sozforex wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When ~white collar [researchers, programmers, managers, salespeople, translators, illustrators, ...] lose their income/jobs to AI's -> lose their ability to buy products/services and at the same time try to shift in mass to doing some kind of manual work, do you think that would not affect incomes of those who are the current blue collar class?

>do you think that would not affect incomes of those who are the current blue collar class? Obviously it is affect. Supply of goods are increased and their relative market value are increased - how can this not increase their incomes?

The law of supply and demand dictates that when the supply of a thing increases it's value decreases.

Re: FOSS infrastructure is under attack by AI companies

#569

Post by anon373839 »

kerkeslager wrote: post #162
pkdpic wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how could they possibly base their actions on good when their technology is more important than fire? History is depending on them to do everything possible to increase their market cap.

Careful, I think you're being sarcastic, but you're in a space where a lot of people believe what you just said unironically.

Ha! Comment of the week.

Re: FOSS infrastructure is under attack by AI companies

#570

Post by lithocarpus »

neutronicus wrote: post #446
lithocarpus wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my view it's the same thing, same trajectory -- with more power in the hands of fewer people further along the trajectory. It can be better or worse depending on what those with power choose to do. Probably worse. There has been conquest and domination for a long time, but ordinary people have also lived in relative peace gathering and growing food in large parts of the world in the past, some for entire generatio…

On the bright side, armies of robot slaves give us an off-ramp from the unsustainable pyramid scheme of population growth. Be fruitful, and multiply, so that you may enjoy a comfortable middle age and senescence exploiting the shit out of numerous naive 25-year-olds! If it's robots, we can ramp down the population of both humans and robots until the planet can once again easily provide abundance.

Sure, the problem though is it won't be "we" deciding what the robots do, it will most likely be a few powerful people of dubious character and motivations since those are the sort of people who pursue power and end up powerful.

That's why even though technology could theoretically be used to save us from many of our problems, it isn't primarily used that way.

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