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The Burnout Machine

unionize.fyi

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Re: The Burnout Machine

#301

Post by _carbyau_ »

rockemsockem wrote: post #275
bombcar wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Is that data that's generally available somewhere??

I wonder whether you could extrapolate off other industries.

IE things like sports or music where the top 1% make f*k-you money and the rest either get by or struggle. Do they have to do the occasional public performance to build hype?

Or maybe it's more like a tradie. I always thought Leon:The Professional was a story about an apprenticeship, not that movies are a source of truth on real life.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#302

Post by azemetre »

samiv wrote: post #259
Minor49er wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or take a gap year to regenerate, or reinvent, yourself. I'm curious about people who have done this and how they've handled things like insurance, taxes, and getting back into the workforce after such a long gap. It seems like a big risk since there's no guarantee of employment. I'd also imagine having a long break would be looked on unfavorably by interviewers and make it harder to get back in

I can only speak for myself but I took 4 times a year or more off. Three of those times I spent backpacking and traveling in Australia, NZ and South-East Asia, and I spent time doing something else such as fruit-picking and working as a Dive Master and scuba diving for half a year. (Best times really) Getting back to work was as simple as making a few phone calls essentially and exploring my network. Granted, it was…

You do realize that this is immensely privileged and something that 99% of working devs can't do right? Especially the bit about making calls and instantly getting a job, that's something even famous engineers can't get too.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#303

Post by theamk »

ethanwillis wrote: post #278
echelon wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a union help you with your wrists? Why do you need help? I type every single day and I don't want your health problem placing limits on my job flexibility and career advancement. If our industry fills with unions, suddenly I won't be able to job hop to positions that look interesting to me. I'll have to consider things like seniority and tenure and a bunch of artificial rules. It'll be like going back to hig…

> I type every single day and I don't want your health problem placing limits on my job flexibility and career advancement. You live in a society. All I'm hearing is I need to vote to raise taxes to bring you back down to reality. So it will be.

yes? pretty sure state-sponsored healthcare is going to be much better, both for individual and population, than the current mess that US has.

You should not require unions just to get help with your health problems.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#304

Post by Apocryphon »

rockemsockem wrote: post #272
Apocryphon wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be as simple as you only need to take the Leetcode exam once every ten years instead of every time you switch jobs.

I don't trust a credentialing board to vet my coworkers for me. EDIT: i.e. I'm still going to want to interview them and have them prove to me that they can write code.

And yet, that's what we do with CoderPad, Leetcode, Karat, etc.

Yes, of course you should still interview them afterwards, I'm sure that's what credentialed professions do as well. My point is just to have the Leetcode portion be done once rather than for every company's interview.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#305

Post by Apocryphon »

CaffeineLD50 wrote: post #214

Apparently the #1 issue that could motivate unionizing is WFH. I suggest a one issue union: the WFH union. I think it would be a massive success.

And even if you want to work onsite- ever notice that the near-universal distaste for open offices? Yet that's a trend in tech that refuses to die? There's an anti-open office layout story on HN every month, or used to be. For all of the power that software engineers think they have as an occupation, why can't they overcome being stuck in a bullpen, sometimes even in a floating desk setup?

Maybe all of the cushy perks are just what management is willing to bestow, and something as simple as getting cubicles or team cubes is beyond the reach for most staff engineers.

Would a labor union be overkill for getting such a concession? Perhaps. But in the absence of any sort of professional representation to push back or push for things, all you can do is blog stories that get upvoted on HN, and not much else.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#306

Post by vvpan »

stared wrote: post #100

Software engineering is one of the ways of playing life in "easy mode" (I moved from academia over a decade ago, and I know the difference). This blog post tries to paint it differently - and it feels like it lacks perspective compared to virtually any other occupation. > We’re living in a world where billion dollar tech companies expect us to live and breathe code, demanding 80 hour weeks under the guise of "passion…

I recommend this reading about where the valley heading. If you are not squeezed for work, you will be. Developers are becoming more disposable. Maybe you are not feeling but it's happening.

https://www.businessinsider.com/tech-industry-amazon-microso...

Re: The Burnout Machine

#307

Post by [deleted] »

_fat_santa wrote: post #197
__loam wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incredible that people like you will watch the industry lay off hundreds of thousands of workers then turn around and make this argument. It's like devs are allergic to any semblance of labor solidarity.

> It's like devs are allergic to any semblance of labor solidarity. No, it's because we know how good we have it. Yes tech layoffs can be brutal but we all signed up for that. I knew even back in college that tech jobs can be flaky and I was likely to be out on my ass a few times in career. But I took the deal anyways because I can make six figures wearing pajamas in my basement.

[deleted]

Re: The Burnout Machine

#308

Post by gonzo41 »

blinded wrote: post #211
stared wrote: post #100

Software engineering is one of the ways of playing life in "easy mode" (I moved from academia over a decade ago, and I know the difference). This blog post tries to paint it differently - and it feels like it lacks perspective compared to virtually any other occupation. > We’re living in a world where billion dollar tech companies expect us to live and breathe code, demanding 80 hour weeks under the guise of "passion…

1000% this. My partner is in the medical field, the absurd schedule they put up with and the amount they are required to work when tired is the worst. Some close friends do contracting / construction, it takes a tole on their bodies. People that take above senior level roles or "FANG" jobs should expect to grind.

Just because doctors have internalized the propaganda that they need to work that hard doesn't make it true or correct.

People who take senior roles are paid for the things they are accountable for. They don't have to do 80 hours in front of a screen, they need to drive outcomes and be accountable.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#309

Post by throwaway17824 »

kulahan wrote: post #261
ghiculescu wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No industry has 0% unemployment. Most people would kill for the employability of the median software engineer.

This isn’t wrong. In every industry, there will always be people who struggle to find employment. It’s a necessary part of the economic machine. One hopes it is not always the same person suffering, of course. Still, absolutely everything about this industry is inflated. Pepsi just bought Poppi for $1.5B. That’s a HUGE DEAL, but hardly worth mentioning when compared with the $70B that Microsoft spent on Activision-Bl…

> Making $80k a year is a GREAT salary. That’s going to invoke a hearty yawn from many when comparing to dev salaries.

I'd like to draw a distinction here:

$80k is very good, by the standards of what most people can get.

$80k is middling-to-poor compared to how fast the cost of living is going up. Housing prices are skyrocketing, people have no savings, can't afford emergencies.

The economy is leaving people behind. In my area, SWE pay moves closer to "normal difficulty" every year, while everyone else moves to "hard".

Re: The Burnout Machine

#310

Post by whoisthemachine »

rockemsockem wrote: post #292
whoisthemachine wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they have an undergrad degree in any of those disciplines then their college has ABET accreditation.

IDK why, but I totally mixed up ABET with the professional engineering credentials where individuals get accredited as opposed to curriculums. I'm not sure ABET is the most relevant here? What would making CS programs accredited change?

Consistent educational standards leads to a common shared understanding of what knowledge and training your engineering colleagues have. This also makes it easier right off the bat for an employer to know what a "junior" engineer is - and leads to more consistent experience levels afterwards.

And you didn't quite mix it up, a degree from an ABET accredited school is required to get your professional engineering certification, which is often required in cases where engineering designs carry legal liability.

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