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FOSS infrastructure is under attack by AI companies

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Re: FOSS infrastructure is under attack by AI companies

#261

I see this going the way of email, with larger, well-known, and more well-behaved crawlers being allowed to index websites for free, and smaller, unknown crawlers suffering brownouts, getting banned, or having to pay for access. It will be harder to self-host a website or run your own crawler.

Yes this does remind me of the old spam wars of early 2000s. Back then collaborative block lists were useful to reject senders at IP level before using a Bayesian system on the message itself.

Even though these bots are using different IPs with each request, that IP may be reused for a different website, and donating those IPs to a central system could help identify entire subnets to block.

Another trick was “tar-pitting” suspect senders (browser agent for example) to slow their message down and delay their process.

Re: FOSS infrastructure is under attack by AI companies

#262

I was also under attack recently [0]. The little Forgejo instance where I host my code (of several open source packages so it needs to be open) was run into the ground and the disk was filled with generated zip archives. I'm not the only one who has suffered the same fate. For me, the attacks subsided (for now) when I banned Alibaba Cloud's IP range. If you are hosting a Forgejo instance, I strongly recommend setting…

"disk was filled with generated zip archives"

That's bad software design to generate ZIP files on the fly.

Re: FOSS infrastructure is under attack by AI companies

#263

The big takeaway here is that Google's (and advertisement in general) dominance over the web is going away. This is because the only way to stop the bots is with a captcha, and this also stops search indexers from indexing your site. This will result in search engines not indexing sites, and hence providing no value anymore. There's probably going to be a small lag as the current knowledge in the current LLMs dry up…

Can we not just have a whitelist for allowed crawlers and ban the rest by default? Then places like DuckDuckGo and Google can provide a list of IP addresses that their crawlers will come from. Then simply just don't include major LLM providers like OpenAI

We actually can do this already.

https://duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/results/duckduc...

https://developers.google.com/search/docs/crawling-indexing/...

https://www.bing.com/webmasters/help/how-to-verify-bingbot-3...

Re: FOSS infrastructure is under attack by AI companies

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I already started incorporating AI into my workflow. It's definitely helped with productivity. At some point in the future, if you aren't using AI, you won't be able to compete in the job market.

At some point in the future, if you aren't AI, you won't be able to compete in the job market.

Sure, maybe in 50 years. At the moment, it's a productivity tool. Strangely, by the look of the down votes, the HN community doesn't quite understand this.

Re: FOSS infrastructure is under attack by AI companies

#266
post #198
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope lots of websites adopt this, mainly because I want to see more happy jackal girls while browsing.

My monetization strategy is unironically to offer a de-anime'd version under the name Techaro BotStopper or something.

It's a clever (and hilarious) strategy that will probably sell at least a few licenses. As an anime hater I'd be motivated by this.

Re: FOSS infrastructure is under attack by AI companies

#267

The big takeaway here is that Google's (and advertisement in general) dominance over the web is going away. This is because the only way to stop the bots is with a captcha, and this also stops search indexers from indexing your site. This will result in search engines not indexing sites, and hence providing no value anymore. There's probably going to be a small lag as the current knowledge in the current LLMs dry up…

Can we not just have a whitelist for allowed crawlers and ban the rest by default? Then places like DuckDuckGo and Google can provide a list of IP addresses that their crawlers will come from. Then simply just don't include major LLM providers like OpenAI

The problem is many crawlers pretend to be humans. So to ban the rest of the crawlers by default, you'll have to ban humans.

Re: FOSS infrastructure is under attack by AI companies

#268

The big takeaway here is that Google's (and advertisement in general) dominance over the web is going away. This is because the only way to stop the bots is with a captcha, and this also stops search indexers from indexing your site. This will result in search engines not indexing sites, and hence providing no value anymore. There's probably going to be a small lag as the current knowledge in the current LLMs dry up…

Can we not just have a whitelist for allowed crawlers and ban the rest by default? Then places like DuckDuckGo and Google can provide a list of IP addresses that their crawlers will come from. Then simply just don't include major LLM providers like OpenAI

How do you distinguish crawlers from regular visitors using a whitelist? As stated in the article, the crawlers show up with seemingly unique IP addresses and seemingly real user agents. It's a cat and mouse game.

Only if you operate on the scale of Cloudflare, etc. you can see which IP addresses are hitting a large number of servers in a short time span.

(I am pretty sure next they will hand out N free LLM requests per month in exchange of user machines doing the scraping if blocking gets more succesful.)

I fear the only solution in the end are CDNs, making visits expensive using challenges, or requiring users to log in.

Re: FOSS infrastructure is under attack by AI companies

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point in the future, if you aren't AI, you won't be able to compete in the job market.

Sure, maybe in 50 years. At the moment, it's a productivity tool. Strangely, by the look of the down votes, the HN community doesn't quite understand this.

what you don't understand is you are training your own replacement

the tools feed back to the mothership what you are accepting and what you aren't

this is a far better signal than anything they get from crawling the internet

Re: FOSS infrastructure is under attack by AI companies

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we not just have a whitelist for allowed crawlers and ban the rest by default? Then places like DuckDuckGo and Google can provide a list of IP addresses that their crawlers will come from. Then simply just don't include major LLM providers like OpenAI

How are the crawlers identifying themselves? If it's user agent strings then they can be faked. If it's cryptographically secured then you create a situation where newcomers can't get into the market.

Google publishes the ip addresses that google bot uses. If someone claims to be google bot but is not from one of those addresses, it’s a fake.
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