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The power of intermittent fasting

bbc.co.uk

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Re: The power of intermittent fasting

#31

Post by backprojection »

jacques_chester wrote: post #9

Intermittent fasting works for me: http://chester.id.au/2012/04/17/my-diet/ I love food. I love everything about it. I love the smell of it, the sight of it, the way steam rises of freshly cooked food. I love mixing it up. I love the act of chewing, the taste, the way it feels in my mouth. The act of swallowing is great and the sensation of fullness is sensational. So it should come as no surprise that for me , at le…

>But do you know why? It isn't the schedule that really matters.

You haven't shown that. Where's the randomized experiment where one group is assigned to eat 3000 cal/day evenly distributed, and the other group is assigned 6000 cal during an 8 hour window, every other day, and then the same thing but now 1800 cal per day, or 3600 every other day?

I don't fully understand this compulsion to explain anything successful in the weight-loss field, ultimatlely, in terms of calorie restriction.

Re: The power of intermittent fasting

#32

Post by jacques_chester »

backprojection wrote: post #31
jacques_chester wrote: post #9

Intermittent fasting works for me: http://chester.id.au/2012/04/17/my-diet/ I love food. I love everything about it. I love the smell of it, the sight of it, the way steam rises of freshly cooked food. I love mixing it up. I love the act of chewing, the taste, the way it feels in my mouth. The act of swallowing is great and the sensation of fullness is sensational. So it should come as no surprise that for me , at le…

>But do you know why? It isn't the schedule that really matters. You haven't shown that. Where's the randomized experiment where one group is assigned to eat 3000 cal/day evenly distributed, and the other group is assigned 6000 cal during an 8 hour window, every other day, and then the same thing but now 1800 cal per day, or 3600 every other day? I don't fully understand this compulsion to explain anything successful…

> I don't fully understand this compulsion to explain anything successful in the weight-loss field, ultimatlely, in terms of calorie restriction.

Because any other hypothesis has to explain why it violates the conservation of energy and matter. (Also: such studies are harder than they look to arrange. Completely controlling someone's caloric intake and output is difficult to achieve).

What tends to happen in discussions such as these is that they devolve into a shouting match about the boundaries of causality. In a basic physical sense, caloric balance is the only thing that matters. It is the causal element. Cut calories enough, you will lose weight. Raise them enough, you will gain. The relationship won't be linear, immediate, proportional or unary. But it will be causal.

But that's oversimplifying! comes the cry. And it is. The internal mechanisms of the body mediate and modulate weight control in interesting ways. The ever-plunging $:calorie ratio has its input. And so on and so forth, ad infinitum.

Proponents of IF talk about various interesting biological pathways that turn on and off, hormone levels that change and so on. But the direct cause of weight loss in IF is that you simply do not eat as much. You can't, you've removed entire culturally-important, structured opportunities to eat. Gone, just like that.

Re: The power of intermittent fasting

#34

Post by randallsquared »

jacques_chester wrote: post #32
backprojection wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But do you know why? It isn't the schedule that really matters. You haven't shown that. Where's the randomized experiment where one group is assigned to eat 3000 cal/day evenly distributed, and the other group is assigned 6000 cal during an 8 hour window, every other day, and then the same thing but now 1800 cal per day, or 3600 every other day? I don't fully understand this compulsion to explain anything successful…

> I don't fully understand this compulsion to explain anything successful in the weight-loss field, ultimatlely, in terms of calorie restriction. Because any other hypothesis has to explain why it violates the conservation of energy and matter. (Also: such studies are harder than they look to arrange. Completely controlling someone's caloric intake and output is difficult to achieve). What tends to happen in discussi…

The relationship won't be linear, immediate, proportional or unary. But it will be causal.

So... you agree with the comment you're replying to, then?

No one disputes that a body cannot burn more energy than it has taken in. However, other factors can swamp a "mere" 25% percent reduction in caloric intake. IF has been the most effective weight loss strategy for me, but it doesn't work forever unless you keep reducing the amount you're eating. Eating only every other day worked great for two months or so, but eventually the loss tapered off (this was 2010), and something else must be done. The body doesn't need nearly as much energy as we typically give it, apparently, and varying the amount discarded can affect weight gain or loss greatly.

Re: The power of intermittent fasting

#35

Post by graeme »

DanI-S wrote: post #25

Am I the only person who becomes extremely irritable once their blood sugar gets low? I can't imagine fasting for a day - I'd have no friends left by the end of it.

Your body adapts quite quickly. I don't eat until noon, and am full of energy in the mornings.

My brother tried, and it only took two days for his system to adjust.

Re: The power of intermittent fasting

#36

Post by saljam »

In addition to fasting on the month of Ramadan, Muslims are “recommended” (i.e. it's considered virtuous but not obligatory) to fast on Mondays and Thursdays of every week. That sounds eerily similar to the 5:2 diet in the article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sawm#Days_for_voluntary_fasting

Muslims also know what's called prophet David's fasting, which is to fast every other day. However, considering that includes water, it's considerably difficult to maintain. I'm not sure I heard of anyone other than David himself do it for a long period of time! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_David

Re: The power of intermittent fasting

#37

Post by graeme »

stevenkovar wrote: post #21

Check out Martin Berkhan's http://leangains.com for more about making muscle gains while fasting. There's a subtle difference between using fasting as a tool for weight loss and one for body fat loss, but it's a difference nonetheless—it largely boils down to better management of your macro-nutrients (proteins, fats, carbohydrates) versus "eating like normal" after a fasting period. The most basic explanation is that…

I've been doing this for two months, works great for me. I'm down six pounds, and ~%40 stronger. And I was already fairly lean.

Re: The power of intermittent fasting

#38

Post by jacques_chester »

randallsquared wrote: post #34
jacques_chester wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't fully understand this compulsion to explain anything successful in the weight-loss field, ultimatlely, in terms of calorie restriction. Because any other hypothesis has to explain why it violates the conservation of energy and matter. (Also: such studies are harder than they look to arrange. Completely controlling someone's caloric intake and output is difficult to achieve). What tends to happen in discussi…

The relationship won't be linear, immediate, proportional or unary. But it will be causal. So... you agree with the comment you're replying to, then? No one disputes that a body cannot burn more energy than it has taken in. However, other factors can swamp a "mere" 25% percent reduction in caloric intake. IF has been the most effective weight loss strategy for me, but it doesn't work forever unless you keep reducing…

One thing you probably overlooked: fat cells add to BMR.

Re: The power of intermittent fasting

#39

Post by DenisM »

ams6110 wrote: post #29
pgrote wrote: post #10

ADF is the unknown secret to solving many modern ills ... or so I think. :) I've had many conversations with three doctors about it and my thought is our bodies haven't caught up evolutionary wise to eating each and every day. I have no proof outside of personal results, which I understand doesn't make it a reality. I could be a freak. lol They key is not eating at all for a full 24 hours including your sleep cycle a…

I think this is actually very likely to be true. Think about living as a hunter-gatherer. Some days you just won't find/catch anything. Maybe you snack on a few insects. Other days you bag an antelope or find a big patch of berries and you have more than you can eat. Alternating between fast and feast every few days seems like it would be quite common. Eating a regular 3 meals a day is probably not the norm.

  So, two prehistoric men discuss cooking:
  - cooking meat should make you live longer
  - I don't know, man, my father always ate raw meat
    and he lived without any problems all the way
    till the old age of twenty one!
My point being, just because it's the old way, doesn't mean it's the better way.

Re: The power of intermittent fasting

#40

Post by pakitan »

I see people here mostly talk about effects fasting has on health but not much about effects on mental/physical performance. If you live longer but you're less effective in what you do, fasting turns into a much less attractive choice, at least for some people.

From my very non-scientific experiments, I can tell that my bullet (1 min) chess rating suffers a lot when I'm restricting my calories. It's really hard to measure how fasting would affect a more complex activity, like programming...probably the impact is smaller but there certainly is an impact. With restricted calories, I usually need to add caffeine to the mix to suppress my hunger and make it easier to concentrate.

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