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The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

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Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#211

Post by deepsun »

sethammons wrote: post #173
deepsun wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Critics assert blatant omissions of important historical episodes, uncritical reliance on biased sources, and failure to examine opposing views.

and this history texts are provided as a counter balance to the biased sources and failure to examine opposing views of other history texts. take in a range and make informed decisions. When a book presents any factoid, something else was chosen to not be presented. And that choice colors the narrative. Those who say "teach the facts" miss that the facts chosen paint a bias.

You basically say that everyone is biased, take the middle.

But I've seen with my own eyes living in dictatorial countries, that there are wild differences in how much bias there are. If one source lies 5% of the facts and an opposing source lies 95% of the facts, taking the middle leaves you with 50% lies, heavily biased to one side. You'd better just go with the first completely and have only 5% lies.

I've read several real scientific historical papers, and I immediately see they don't work like that. They are typically very-very boring, with tons of views and sources mentioned, considered and scrutinized. In fact, that's a good test for how scientific is a paper -- real scientist knows about all the works in their field, so omission of anything is a red flag. So they really strive to include everything available.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#212

Post by thinkcritical »

First of all, there was a lot of interesting food for thought in this post and I love the framework it offers for leisurely research. However; I don't agree with this:

> through audiovisual devices, which ask no discipline of the mind, and which are already giving the room the languor of an opium parlor.

I wish there was concrete evidence provided to support this. I suspect that learning outcomes are going to be more influenced by the quality of the material and the level of engagement of the learner, regardless of medium. Bad content is bad content, whether it's text or audiovisual, and I can passively read a book as easily as I can passively consume a video.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#213

Post by readthenotes1 »

jll29 wrote: post #131

I like the idea of collecting a list of books that you would take with you on a remote island. Imagine you would never leave that island, what would you take? - The Art of Computer Programming I-IVb - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs - Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid - Lions' Commentary on UNIX 6th Edition - ... or perhaps - The Bible - The Scouting Guide to Wilderness First Aid: An Offi…

Certainly survival guide stuff.

I was thinking about the civilization book case and wondering if they had forgotten to include sun tzu, clausewitz, etc ...

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#214

Post by gnulinux »

randomNumber7 wrote: post #209
luizfzs wrote: post #107

My gut feeling (with bias) is that most people don't think about things around them because society is in a constant state of hurry. If someone is wondering 'how did zoning laws came to be?', they are not being productive. And our western society seems to value the individuals based on how much they produce. The person working, or commuting to/from work, is tired and doesn't have the energy to ponder about the world…

I agree with your gut feeling and add that to me it feels im surrounded by f*ing Zombies. It's not that they are too stupid, but they don't even __try__ to think.

My boss regularly criticizes me for thinking too much. Sometimes I stop and think if this is the best way to implement something, and then suddenly receive a lecture about velocity, moving fast, being efficient, being ok with pushing bugs to prod, and all that shebang.

Our society has a pathological obsession with productivity.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#215

Post by mobilejdral »

wasabi991011 wrote: post #200
mobilejdral wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author also asks "If you were stranded on an island (or small hostile planetoid), what books would you want to have with you?" which I also can't answer. I would fall into the category of someone who does research as leisure. I have been slowly unraveling the genetics behind gender dysphoria. Yes I have borrowed a few biology books from libraries, but it has mostly been reading 70 years of research papers, piecin…

Sounds interesting, do you have somewhere I can read some of what you've learned across your research?

Sure, add a way to contact you to your account and I can send you over the current understanding.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#216

Post by mmooss »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #204
mmooss wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think people are confused by the definitions of primary/secondary sources. Sorry: Primary - the actual evidence. The actual letter written by Jefferson; the ice core itself, etc. For example, if you are an historian writing about Jefferson, you actually travel to the archive and read Jefferson's letters and look through the other papers, etc. - the actual stuff. Secondary - the journal article, the scholarly book…

Many, many times in historical research the "primary source" (I'm using your definition here because in historical circles the primary source is not always the original artifact or document) is lost to time. It's then up to historians, anthropologists, and other researchers to figure out whether the artifact in question actually existed and whether there's agreement among other sources on what it said. In historical…

Thanks and very interesting. Are you an historian?

> in historical circles the primary source is not always the original artifact or document

What does it mean in historical circles? I know people will often use a digital scan, a reliable transcription, etc., and not necessarily the original - but then isn't that based on the assumption that it's a reliable representation of the original?

I didn't mean to suggest primary sources (by my definition) are always available; I was just trying to give an example where 'primary source' connects the world of ideas to the physical reality. Yes, life, including historical research, isn't that neat and simple.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#217

Post by SamPatt »

citizenpaul wrote: post #203
awongh wrote: post #84

I read a fair amount and I actually do research as leisure all the time, but I can’t stand these elitist and unoriginal think pieces about how much better and cooler this person’s habits are than yours. >> for the leisurely researcher, self-study must include the discipline’s foundational texts I feel like this person has some kind of dark academia aesthetic fetish that they need to hold onto to feel superior to ever…

I've been finding that digital only sources have been declining in quality for probably 5 years now. I have actually greatly reduced my reliance on them due to the fact that anytime HTTP is involved you add a layer of potential marketing obscuring the goal. I've been finding especially lately that I would have been better just getting a book. In fact I've greatly increased by personal library after years of stagnatio…

The majority of online content can decrease in quality while LLMs can increase in quality.

If the decrease in quality is noticeable to you, then it can be accounted for by future model makers. We already know that quantity isn't everything.

The average coming down only creates a stronger contrast for the high-quality work. As a writer, I'm excited about having LLMs available to help me. They're already indispensable.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#218

Post by mclau156 »

sergioisidoro wrote: post #34

I think reading is an essential skill, but we also need to get reading out of the pedestal. Because a lot of the time these arguments come across as some sort of literary elitism. Like if you're not ingesting information through reading, it doesn't count. This month I spent many hours listening to lectures on youtube about geopolitics on the Asian continent from the naval war college. Sure I could have read it, but n…

Reading Wikipedia can easily become research

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#219

Post by sigbottle »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #96
rottc0dd wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a personal take. I agree if you are actively participating and grappling with the material in your mind. One reason I like reading is that, if I don't understand I cannot move on to next step. So, it forces me to actively participate, argue and understand the text. In audio and visual medium, it is somewhat easier to trick myself into following the flow without actually understanding. I heard, that is why Fey…

> In audio and visual medium, it is somewhat easier to trick myself into following the flow without actually understanding. That just means exploiting the medium to full potential hasn't been normalized yet. Much like with the books, you can pause video and audio. And, much like with books, you can go through the material once to get the high-level overview, and then play it again to learn more, now that you have bet…

This is really true. People love to say, "Just don't make the same mistake twice" or whatever, but part of the necessity of ingesting truly novel information is that you're gonna weave back and trip over yourself a ton of times before you get to that clean refined mental model.

For me, note-taking is a godsend - I don't know how I would live without it. Anywhere from hyper specific detailed notes to just unstructured rants. It's the equivalent of storing things in memory - that alone makes algorithms far more powerful.

It doesn't help with real-time tasks like talking though... but I've noticed I have gotten a bit better at talking ever since I started note taking.

I think the "learn instinctually by doing stuff a lot" approach definitely is useful but note-taking is a healthy balance between that and getting perma-stuck in research mode.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#220

Post by weakfish »

mobilejdral wrote: post #215
wasabi991011 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds interesting, do you have somewhere I can read some of what you've learned across your research?

Sure, add a way to contact you to your account and I can send you over the current understanding.

Also interested.
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