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In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

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Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#81

Post by zcvosdfdgj »

sehugg wrote: post #26
rprasad wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is because prison is not the punishment for most of those offenses. Before you say shit about the U.S. judicial system, you should learn something about it. SEC and FTC violations are civil offenses . The punishment for civil offenses are fines . Plenty of firms and higher-ups have paid fines. Jail time only applies in cases where deliberate fraud is proven to have occurred. We all know that the finance guys wer…

Here's a low-level Countrywide loan officer that got 15 years in prison: http://www.fbi.gov/phoenix/press-releases/2012/former-countr... Here's the ex-CEO of Countrywide getting his criminal investigation dropped after settling with the SEC for $67.5 million: http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/02/19/criminal-investigatio... I'm seeing a pattern here.

you have terrible reading comprehension.

The article says he paid 67.5 million in fines to settle a securities fraud lawsuit brought by the SEC. It was a civil lawsuit, so the penalty if he lost (instead of settled) would have been a fine.

The criminal case was dropped because a grand jury would not indict after 2 years debating the issue.

The settlement has nothing to do with the criminal case.

And in the other case of the "low-level countrywide loan officer".. the level of fraud detailed in your link goes far and beyond the fraud occurring in the mortgage industry at the time. He had countrywide issue 38million in fraudulent loans, of which 8.7million went into his own bank account.

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#82

Post by cutie »

philwelch wrote: post #21
rprasad wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is because prison is not the punishment for most of those offenses. Before you say shit about the U.S. judicial system, you should learn something about it. SEC and FTC violations are civil offenses . The punishment for civil offenses are fines . Plenty of firms and higher-ups have paid fines. Jail time only applies in cases where deliberate fraud is proven to have occurred. We all know that the finance guys wer…

That's not enough! There's a recession, so the rich must be punished for it, due process or not! /sarcasm

People are not generally angry at "the rich," but rather the fat leaches on the govt and financial sectors. I've not heard anyone complaining about the self-made man.

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#83

Post by mlvljr »

Pinckney wrote: post #61
kaptain wrote: post #53

A typical response I see on HN (and on other forums) in response to failings in other countries (e.g. acts of terrorism, corruption, failure of government support, etc) is to find some sarcastic analogy to compare it to in the US. The Chinese government has gotten on the bandwagon with its own publication of the US's human rights violations ( http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-05/25/c_1316113... ). I found…

The Chinese government has gotten on the bandwagon with its own publication of the US's human rights violations ( http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-05/25/c_1316113... ). I found this humorous. I'm reminded of the Soviet counterpart to this. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes )

(speaking from Russia) at the time of that argument, our propaganda guys did have a point: the poverty was defeated here, everyone had a job guarantee, an opportunity to get (free) world-class higher education, choose a career in science, military, or industry, etc.

Speaking of China, they do have their problems (of course), but to have a moral right to criticize, other fellow countries should at least stop their oil-for-bombs and occupation-based-on-rumors politics (and we will see, how that will change the quality of life and corruption level).

But the resemblance is there, yeah ;)

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#85

Post by edwinnathaniel »

mulation wrote: post #84

If all the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time, why would they lose their lawsuit?

Because the people demand a win in the court against the rich and powerful.

Once the verdict is out, the people are happy.

Give a few months to a year give or take, the people will forget what happen (temper goes down), the rich is out but not necessary in plain sight everyday (semi-hiding), and the body double is in the prison.

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#86

Post by InclinedPlane »

mlvljr wrote: post #83
Pinckney wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese government has gotten on the bandwagon with its own publication of the US's human rights violations ( http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-05/25/c_1316113... ). I found this humorous. I'm reminded of the Soviet counterpart to this. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes )

(speaking from Russia) at the time of that argument, our propaganda guys did have a point: the poverty was defeated here, everyone had a job guarantee, an opportunity to get (free) world-class higher education, choose a career in science, military, or industry, etc. Speaking of China, they do have their problems (of course), but to have a moral right to criticize, other fellow countries should at least stop their oil…

Are you implying that in the 1960s there was literally no one living in poverty in the soviet union?

Seems to be some evidence against that, such as: http://books.google.com/books/about/Poverty_in_the_Soviet_Un...

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#87

Post by m0skit0 »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #86
mlvljr wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(speaking from Russia) at the time of that argument, our propaganda guys did have a point: the poverty was defeated here, everyone had a job guarantee, an opportunity to get (free) world-class higher education, choose a career in science, military, or industry, etc. Speaking of China, they do have their problems (of course), but to have a moral right to criticize, other fellow countries should at least stop their oil…

Are you implying that in the 1960s there was literally no one living in poverty in the soviet union? Seems to be some evidence against that, such as: http://books.google.com/books/about/Poverty_in_the_Soviet_Un...

Poverty in the USSR didn't impeach you from having free health care, free education and almost free basic food and transport. Compare with poors in the USA.

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#89

Post by tptacek »

cperciva wrote: post #68
rprasad wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the state level, yes. *But not at the federal (U.S.) level. These distinctions matter.

Ok. I'm Canadian, so all US law blurs together to me (especially since in Canada, criminal law is under the sole jurisdiction of the federal government).

Most criminal prosecutions in the US happen at the state level.

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#90

Post by mlvljr »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #86
mlvljr wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(speaking from Russia) at the time of that argument, our propaganda guys did have a point: the poverty was defeated here, everyone had a job guarantee, an opportunity to get (free) world-class higher education, choose a career in science, military, or industry, etc. Speaking of China, they do have their problems (of course), but to have a moral right to criticize, other fellow countries should at least stop their oil…

Are you implying that in the 1960s there was literally no one living in poverty in the soviet union? Seems to be some evidence against that, such as: http://books.google.com/books/about/Poverty_in_the_Soviet_Un...

Yes, I'm speaking exactly of the golden era of USSR (1961 -- 1979, roughly), and the evidence of my family, relatives and friends clearly states, that poverty was _literally_ defeated by that time -- you plain could not be starving from hunger or be homeless (unless you prefered to, but that was against the law, and everyone was guaranteed to have a roof above his head).

Speaking short and plain, everyone had at least enough to live a healthy life, and quite many had somewhat more.

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