Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bernie Madoff's mistake is that he screwed over other rich people.
I like (as in don't like) how that's the excuse for every counter example. Just like how Martha Stewart only went to jail because she didn't play golf with the right people.
In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time
71–80 of 101 posts
Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time
#72A typical response I see on HN (and on other forums) in response to failings in other countries (e.g. acts of terrorism, corruption, failure of government support, etc) is to find some sarcastic analogy to compare it to in the US. The Chinese government has gotten on the bandwagon with its own publication of the US's human rights violations ( http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-05/25/c_1316113... ). I found…
Try asking about it in a better Chinese university. 5000+ startups listed on 17startup.com and growing everyday. Besides, http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/sme/facts-figures-an... Entrepreneurial attitudes in Europe compared to the US and Asia // Chinese people have the strongest preference for self-employment (71%), Japanese people the weakest (39%). Similarly, Chinese think it is quite possible to become one’…
1) The survey was taken amongst urban inhabitants: "...this sample covered 115,000,000 of the 615,000,000 urban inhabitants..." Which of course leaves the roughly 704 million rural residents unsampled. I don't fault the survey process; it's clear what they're after and they were transparent with the process. But it's difficult for me to say that this is representative of a whole country when clearly the sample was taken of the urban side only. (Of course, urbanization is expanding in China but my point still stands). Also, note that the actual survey has a question asking about locality (metro/urban/rural)). I'm assuming this was skipped for the Chinese respondents. Rural respondents might have been even more enthusiastic in their response to these questions, but I doubt it; most folks that I meet from rural areas don't have that kind of mentality.
2) "Trying asking about it in a better Chinese university." This underlines my point. Many well known (i.e. "successful") startups in the US are founded by people that have went to Harvard, Stanford, Caltech, etc. but this isn't a pre-req for being a tech entrepreneur (or any type of entrepreneur for that matter). There's a number of notable entrepreneurs that didn't go to college or finish that have found success. Why should it matter that I go to a better Chinese university? Further, the better the Chinese university the less representative that individual is of the overall population; those individuals are highly selected based on their Gaokao test scores (and possibly their family connections).
I was overly optimistic with the assessment of my university (Ningda). It's not even in the third tier according to this standard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_985
(Edited for grammar.)
Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is because prison is not the punishment for most of those offenses. Before you say shit about the U.S. judicial system, you should learn something about it. SEC and FTC violations are civil offenses . The punishment for civil offenses are fines . Plenty of firms and higher-ups have paid fines. Jail time only applies in cases where deliberate fraud is proven to have occurred. We all know that the finance guys wer…
>We all know that the finance guys were too reckless in their pursuit of profits. But recklessness is not a crime (and indeed, the only crime in the U.S. system for which "recklessness" is relevant is manslaughter/murder). Perhaps this is a facet of law that people should lobby to get changed. The kind of wanton disregard shown by the finanical sector during the recent meltdown damn well should be a crime, if it isn'…
I also submit it was reckless to provide mass government guarantee for subprime loans - after all, they are subprime for a reason, due to very high default risk, and when this risk materialized - and it had to materialize sometime unless whoever evaluated these loans as subprime was wildly mistaken - taxpayers were on the hook for these loans. Should people who supported FNM and FMA operations go to jail for that?
I'm afraid we'd end up jailing a real lot of people, including a lot of politicians, if we go this road. And if it would produce any negative consequences, we'd also have to jail whoever proposed such laws - as it would be deemed reckless to propose it...
Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time
#74A typical response I see on HN (and on other forums) in response to failings in other countries (e.g. acts of terrorism, corruption, failure of government support, etc) is to find some sarcastic analogy to compare it to in the US. The Chinese government has gotten on the bandwagon with its own publication of the US's human rights violations ( http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-05/25/c_1316113... ). I found…
Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
Try asking about it in a better Chinese university. 5000+ startups listed on 17startup.com and growing everyday. Besides, http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/sme/facts-figures-an... Entrepreneurial attitudes in Europe compared to the US and Asia // Chinese people have the strongest preference for self-employment (71%), Japanese people the weakest (39%). Similarly, Chinese think it is quite possible to become one’…
Thanks for the links. They were interesting. Two comments: 1) The survey was taken amongst urban inhabitants: "...this sample covered 115,000,000 of the 615,000,000 urban inhabitants..." Which of course leaves the roughly 704 million rural residents unsampled. I don't fault the survey process; it's clear what they're after and they were transparent with the process. But it's difficult for me to say that this is repre…
Most common rural guys I know want to be a boss deep in their hearts, but they are less likely to reveal that to a foreigner. Chinese people are quite shy about their dreams. On the other hand, it is probably better to ask this question in urban regions. If someone goes to a Texas farm and ask their opinions on founding Internet Startups, probably the answers won't be very encouraging as well.
One thing I like about the Gaokao (University Entrance Exam) system: it is good for one thing - the family connections matter less than in US for this matter. As long as your score is impressive enough, you are in Tsinghua / Peking.
And that's why I have some faith in China. China has this "Exam to Win" system for 1400 years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_examination which explains why the Chinese are so good at it.
Take a look at the President of China (Hu Jintao). He has no family background at all (surprise), and got into the best university by his own efforts. But we only heard media fussing about Obama being the American Dream.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hu_Jintao
"Though his father owned a small tea trading business in Taizhou, the family was relatively poor. His mother was a teacher and died when he was seven, and he was raised by an aunt. Hu's father was later denounced during the Cultural Revolution, an event that (together with his relatively humble origins) apparently had a deep effect upon Hu, who diligently tried to clear his father's name.[6]"
People who studied Chinese Politics 101 knows the de facto ruling authority of China is a group of 9 persons:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politburo_Standing_Committee_of...
and after Mao and Deng, no one has such power to overwhelm the other eight. Talk to a Chinese about Hu being a dictator and he wil laugh. (Yes, the Communist Party is dictating, but there are ~80 million people in it. No, I am not one of them. Actually I find it a bit scary that almost all of the smartest young people I know are now in it, and they are not naive teens - most of them are i-bankers / phds in top WallSt firms and US universities. Think about what will happen in 20 years).
Interesting enough, all of the 9 persons has no connections as well (except for the newly elected and soon-to-be-president Xi, who is the son of a former Vice-Premier. China is following the same path as every other developed country). What's more interesting: they are all Engineers. Shocking fact: China is a country running as a machine (at least at the highest level). Engineers couldn't care less about the people, but you can bet the country surely "move fast and break things". China = Crazy Startup (and yes, employees do suffer. No talk of democracy in companies). Consider this: if China is really so deeply corrupted, how come it is also developing so fast?
Eventually the lawyers and businessmen will take over and people will talk about China being the "largest democracy". Good thing for the people. I am not sure whether it will be good for the country. Aren't the people more important than the country? Or not? Tough question. I think it depends on the development stage.
TL;DR: The Chinese system is bad for the people. But it works well for the country. China is very corrupted in some sense, and highly effective in another sense.
Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here's a low-level Countrywide loan officer that got 15 years in prison: http://www.fbi.gov/phoenix/press-releases/2012/former-countr... Here's the ex-CEO of Countrywide getting his criminal investigation dropped after settling with the SEC for $67.5 million: http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/02/19/criminal-investigatio... I'm seeing a pattern here.
You're seeing a pattern in two datapoints?
Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Kinda off topic, but if you are from USA, you are a United States citizen, american is anybody who is born on the continental america (north, central and south).
Technically correct, but I guess it depends on context, both cultural and conversational. In the UK for example, "America" and "American" always refer to US not the continent, unless there's specific context surrounding it to suggest otherwise. I believe that's generally the case in the US as well, and I suspect (but could be wrong) in most countries?
People seem to make a number of wrong assumptions on that, including 1) it can't also be the demonym for anyone else and 2) other countries can decide another countries demonym in their native language. Both of these things are patently false. If someone wants to use American to refer to a member of the Americas (continents) then they certainly can, but they should include enough context to disambiguate. Moreover, other nations don't decide what a nation gets to call itself in its native language. We call ourselves Americans -- so we are Americans. If other countries don't like that, well, tough for them.
Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my opinion rechlessness is necessary to bring society forward. This behavior induces change to the system and breaks the status quo. Sure, this has often bad consequences, but daring to break the status quo should be generally rewarded, and only regulated in cases where the negative impact on society gets too extreme/long term.
Fine. Except the "recklessness" was given AAA status by ratings agency, making it difficult to properly assess risk. Risky investments guised as Safe should very well be illegal - it's fraud.
Recklessness changing the world: Charles Lindberg
But of course he didn't sell tickets to his first voyage
And sure, branding something it's barely valued more than the paper it's printed on is fraud.