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Ask HN: How should I evaluate a startup as I job hunt?

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21–30 of 65 posts

Re: Ask HN: How should I evaluate a startup as I job hunt?

#21
Financially, as if you were an investor. They're the people whose job it is to evaluate startups' prospects, and they care above all about two things: the founders and the market. The founders should be relentlessly effective, and the market should ideally be of a size that can only be obtained by riding on trends beyond the startup's control (but visible to few besides the founders, or the market would already be full). Joining the young Microsoft, for example was a bet on Bill Gates and microcomputers, both of which turned out to be very good bets.

As a hacker you may be able to judge market bets as well as or better than many investors. E.g. I think HN readers knew Dropbox was onto something before most investors did. So if you go wrong it will be in judging founders. For many hackers, especially the unwordly sort, it's hard to distinguish true Bill Gateses from mere good talkers.

I wish I could offer some advice about distinguishing, but that would take a whole essay. The best simple hack I can think of is completely self-serving, but I'll offer it anyway: piggyback on our filter. YC specializes in distinguishing between genuine Gateses and good talkers. We're occasionally fooled, but far less often than a typical hacker looking for a job would be.

Re: Ask HN: How should I evaluate a startup as I job hunt?

#22
post #21

Financially, as if you were an investor. They're the people whose job it is to evaluate startups' prospects, and they care above all about two things: the founders and the market. The founders should be relentlessly effective, and the market should ideally be of a size that can only be obtained by riding on trends beyond the startup's control (but visible to few besides the founders, or the market would already be fu…

I respectfully disagree.

If you receive equity, then sure, take this into consideration.

But OP isn't a professional investor. He isn't risking other people's money. He is betting his own financial stakes on the venture.

The outer scope is as you say -- will this company go on to greater heights?

But the inner scope is -- given my personal appetite for risk, can they make pay day?

This person is, I presume, young and without obligations like children or a mortgage. So his or her appetite for risk has much more latitude. But that doesn't mean it isn't there.

I opined on this a while back and was downvoted heavily for suggesting that interviewees ask to see some sort of financials -- the consensus in the ensuing discussion was that it was ok to ask what kind of runway the employer had as a proxy for the underlying financial realities.

Re: Ask HN: How should I evaluate a startup as I job hunt?

#23
One small thing.

Interviewers leak. Sometimes they start on anecdotes. Anecdotes are solid gold. Give some of your own if it seems appropriate.

I've turned down lucrative jobs because of the "hilarious" anecdotes of a CEO changing his mind weekly.

Re: Ask HN: How should I evaluate a startup as I job hunt?

#25
post #21

Financially, as if you were an investor. They're the people whose job it is to evaluate startups' prospects, and they care above all about two things: the founders and the market. The founders should be relentlessly effective, and the market should ideally be of a size that can only be obtained by riding on trends beyond the startup's control (but visible to few besides the founders, or the market would already be fu…

Unless the OP will be getting a significant portion of preferred stock (viz. it won't be clawed back and it will receive money in the exit), I doubt that evaluating the company as an investor would is a good idea. Piggybacking on the YC filter would mean joining a company that already has VC money, so potential employees should be doubly careful about their percentage of stock and their stock options.

It would be much more self-serving for an employee to read and consider information aimed at employees. A good article on this is http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/07/08/dont-waste-yo...

Re: Ask HN: How should I evaluate a startup as I job hunt?

#26
post #21

Financially, as if you were an investor. They're the people whose job it is to evaluate startups' prospects, and they care above all about two things: the founders and the market. The founders should be relentlessly effective, and the market should ideally be of a size that can only be obtained by riding on trends beyond the startup's control (but visible to few besides the founders, or the market would already be fu…

Unless the OP will be getting a significant portion of preferred stock (viz. it won't be clawed back and it will receive money in the exit), I doubt that evaluating the company as an investor would is a good idea. Piggybacking on the YC filter would mean joining a company that already has VC money, so potential employees should be doubly careful about their percentage of stock and their stock options. It would be muc…

I think what you mean is preferred stock. And (a) the distinction only matters if the startup does badly, in which case it doesn't matter much, and (b) the founders don't have preferred stock either, so an employee is in the same boat as them. (It is vanishingly rare for individual employees to get their stock/options taken back. Zynga is the only recent case I know of.)

It is certainly not true that joining a YC company means joining one post VC funding. Even if it did, it doesn't matter, because (as investors know) the startup you pick affects returns way more than the stage at which you pick it. That's why VCs are willing to invest in B and C rounds at high valuations when they could invest in other (less promising) companies' A rounds at much lower valuations.

Re: Ask HN: How should I evaluate a startup as I job hunt?

#27
post #21

Financially, as if you were an investor. They're the people whose job it is to evaluate startups' prospects, and they care above all about two things: the founders and the market. The founders should be relentlessly effective, and the market should ideally be of a size that can only be obtained by riding on trends beyond the startup's control (but visible to few besides the founders, or the market would already be fu…

I respectfully disagree. If you receive equity, then sure, take this into consideration. But OP isn't a professional investor. He isn't risking other people's money. He is betting his own financial stakes on the venture. The outer scope is as you say -- will this company go on to greater heights? But the inner scope is -- given my personal appetite for risk, can they make pay day? This person is, I presume, young and…

In a tough job market, I agree that would be an important factor to consider. But it's not a tough job market for hackers now, to put it mildly. I've never seen such demand for hackers. A good hacker who wanted to ditch a dying startup today could find a new job more or less instantly.

Re: Ask HN: How should I evaluate a startup as I job hunt?

#28
post #21

Financially, as if you were an investor. They're the people whose job it is to evaluate startups' prospects, and they care above all about two things: the founders and the market. The founders should be relentlessly effective, and the market should ideally be of a size that can only be obtained by riding on trends beyond the startup's control (but visible to few besides the founders, or the market would already be fu…

I respectfully disagree. If you receive equity, then sure, take this into consideration. But OP isn't a professional investor. He isn't risking other people's money. He is betting his own financial stakes on the venture. The outer scope is as you say -- will this company go on to greater heights? But the inner scope is -- given my personal appetite for risk, can they make pay day? This person is, I presume, young and…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How should I evaluate a startup as I job hunt?

#29
As an employee, a person contributes time, full-time. IMHO, time is the ultimate investment. Something, that cannot be recovered or bought with money. OTOH, an investor puts money and some of his time. Huge difference. If I were to join a startup, I would be thinking, do they deserve my time? Is it worth investing your time?

Re: Ask HN: How should I evaluate a startup as I job hunt?

#30
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree. If you receive equity, then sure, take this into consideration. But OP isn't a professional investor. He isn't risking other people's money. He is betting his own financial stakes on the venture. The outer scope is as you say -- will this company go on to greater heights? But the inner scope is -- given my personal appetite for risk, can they make pay day? This person is, I presume, young and…

In a tough job market, I agree that would be an important factor to consider. But it's not a tough job market for hackers now, to put it mildly. I've never seen such demand for hackers. A good hacker who wanted to ditch a dying startup today could find a new job more or less instantly.

This is not universally true.

I for example cannot leave Perth, Australia. I'm doing the startup boogie from here. And there aren't many dance partners.

So the dynamics of hiring in Silicon Valley, Seattle and New York hold about as much validity for me as the far side of the moon.

(Wherein I partially sink my own argument).

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