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"The carpets are so clean, we don't need janitors"

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Re: "The carpets are so clean, we don't need janitors"

#11

Post by praptak »

cperciva wrote: post #9
Foy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear nightmarish stories of micro-managers all the time. They feel that in order to do their jobs they have to tweak EVERYTHING that crosses their desk. One memorable anecdote I came across was about an animation artist who was in charge of animating the queen for a 3d chess game. Because he knew his manager's weakness he threw in a duck... Yes, a duck. Fully animated with sound effects and everything. Sure enough,…

I've heard the same advice applied to PhD theses: Examiners always want to change something , so leave something in which you won't mind having them tell you to change.

I have witnessed this advice applied to contract drafts. Lawyers from the other company were routinely given some bullshit clauses to prove their usefulness in vetting the contract.

Re: "The carpets are so clean, we don't need janitors"

#12

Post by protomyth »

praptak wrote: post #8
michaelochurch wrote: post #2

Executives are day traders. I've known day traders to argue that they make more money trading in the first and last 30 minutes of the day than they do if they're trading all day, because they end up getting involved in "boredom trading" that is break-even at best (and blows out their variance) and quite possibly losing. As for executives, they're disciplined, they can enjoy their easy jobs and high compensation and a…

> they move on to other jobs. ... with their CVs exposing the fuckups as accomplishments: "Successfully managed a cost cutting campaign, sparing the company 2 bazillions in IT costs". The previous company won't admit it was actually a disaster.

Its even funner at companies that cycle managers through business units to get them experience with the whole company. Leads to a "must make changes that are short-term budget wins but long term negatives" attitude.

Re: "The carpets are so clean, we don't need janitors"

#13

Post by praptak »

protomyth wrote: post #12
praptak wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they move on to other jobs. ... with their CVs exposing the fuckups as accomplishments: "Successfully managed a cost cutting campaign, sparing the company 2 bazillions in IT costs". The previous company won't admit it was actually a disaster.

Its even funner at companies that cycle managers through business units to get them experience with the whole company. Leads to a "must make changes that are short-term budget wins but long term negatives" attitude.

It's called "a bungee boss": http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1994-09-07/

Re: "The carpets are so clean, we don't need janitors"

#14

Post by zcvosdfdgj »

He never says what the company is or what it does.

After IT was cut, he says it would take a week before a computer was on their desk.

That sounds bad. But we have no idea what the company does, so we don't actually know if this is a problem or not.

Look, every division is not critical, and sometimes that division is IT.

We have no idea how much the inefficiency costs or how much was saved by the cuts. So we have no idea if this was a bad OR good thing for the company.

Re: "The carpets are so clean, we don't need janitors"

#15

Post by michaelochurch »

Foy wrote: post #7
michaelochurch wrote: post #2

Executives are day traders. I've known day traders to argue that they make more money trading in the first and last 30 minutes of the day than they do if they're trading all day, because they end up getting involved in "boredom trading" that is break-even at best (and blows out their variance) and quite possibly losing. As for executives, they're disciplined, they can enjoy their easy jobs and high compensation and a…

I hear nightmarish stories of micro-managers all the time. They feel that in order to do their jobs they have to tweak EVERYTHING that crosses their desk. One memorable anecdote I came across was about an animation artist who was in charge of animating the queen for a 3d chess game. Because he knew his manager's weakness he threw in a duck... Yes, a duck. Fully animated with sound effects and everything. Sure enough,…

I had a micromanager who hit everyone with 3 to 4 status pings per day. Even on work-from-home days, which defeats the point. His status pinging was a compulsion like email checking, but it eventually caused the team to fail.

Consequently, I hate status meetings and standups and the various so-called Scr(ot)um tactics used to make people feel watched. I realize they're probably necessary as an occasional annoyance, but I think they're an unnecessary pain in the ass most of the time. Their real purpose is to intimidate people into being productive, and that Theory-X bullshit doesn't work in the modern economy.

Re: "The carpets are so clean, we don't need janitors"

#16

Post by zcvosdfdgj »

michaelochurch wrote: post #2

Executives are day traders. I've known day traders to argue that they make more money trading in the first and last 30 minutes of the day than they do if they're trading all day, because they end up getting involved in "boredom trading" that is break-even at best (and blows out their variance) and quite possibly losing. As for executives, they're disciplined, they can enjoy their easy jobs and high compensation and a…

No need to generalize based on your work experience. There are good AND bad managers.

The fact that IT gets cut does not mean the manager is bad. You work in IT, so I'm sorry I have to break this to you, but sometimes the universe does not revolve around IT. Sometimes there are more important divisions, and sometimes IT expenses have to be cut.

There's not enough detail in the article to know if the manager was good or bad.

Re: "The carpets are so clean, we don't need janitors"

#18

Post by Foy »

Dobbs wrote: post #10
Foy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear nightmarish stories of micro-managers all the time. They feel that in order to do their jobs they have to tweak EVERYTHING that crosses their desk. One memorable anecdote I came across was about an animation artist who was in charge of animating the queen for a 3d chess game. Because he knew his manager's weakness he threw in a duck... Yes, a duck. Fully animated with sound effects and everything. Sure enough,…

The duck story is battle chess: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki?title=Talk:Battle_Chess#The_duc... I've often had the opposite problem: companies where the CEO is so disconnected from the company (usually by working remotely 80% of the time) that the company doesn't have direction and languishes.

Oh thanks! I was wondering where exactly I had heard that.

Re: "The carpets are so clean, we don't need janitors"

#19

Post by michaelochurch »

zcvosdfdgj wrote: post #16
michaelochurch wrote: post #2

Executives are day traders. I've known day traders to argue that they make more money trading in the first and last 30 minutes of the day than they do if they're trading all day, because they end up getting involved in "boredom trading" that is break-even at best (and blows out their variance) and quite possibly losing. As for executives, they're disciplined, they can enjoy their easy jobs and high compensation and a…

No need to generalize based on your work experience. There are good AND bad managers. The fact that IT gets cut does not mean the manager is bad. You work in IT, so I'm sorry I have to break this to you, but sometimes the universe does not revolve around IT. Sometimes there are more important divisions, and sometimes IT expenses have to be cut. There's not enough detail in the article to know if the manager was good…

Things were running well. The executive thought that IT was bloated and made cuts. Things were no longer running well. Far more money was lost in the company's dysfunction than saved by the cuts.

Sounds like a bad executive to me.

I never implied that there aren't good managers and executives, but only that most of them aren't, because most of them get caught up in "boredom trading" that doesn't solve problems, but is just managerial action for action's sake.

Re: "The carpets are so clean, we don't need janitors"

#20

Post by zcvosdfdgj »

michaelochurch wrote: post #19
zcvosdfdgj wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need to generalize based on your work experience. There are good AND bad managers. The fact that IT gets cut does not mean the manager is bad. You work in IT, so I'm sorry I have to break this to you, but sometimes the universe does not revolve around IT. Sometimes there are more important divisions, and sometimes IT expenses have to be cut. There's not enough detail in the article to know if the manager was good…

Things were running well. The executive thought that IT was bloated and made cuts. Things were no longer running well. Far more money was lost in the company's dysfunction than saved by the cuts. Sounds like a bad executive to me. I never implied that there aren't good managers and executives, but only that most of them aren't, because most of them get caught up in "boredom trading" that doesn't solve problems, but i…

First, he said the savings almost certainly less than the cost of the waste. This sounds like a guess. He gives no numbers, and doesn't appear to have quantified anything.

Second, maybe IT was running so smoothly previously because it was bloated, and was a huge drain on company resources. Maybe it was running smoothly because a bad manager refused to put a limit on anything, leading to a division whos costs were completely out of control.

We have no idea, because there are no details in the article about the company, or about the IT spending before OR after the cuts.

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