Live data from Hacker News

Amazon plans to lay off 14,000 managerial positions to save $3.5B yearly

techstartups.com

31–40 of 285 posts

Re: Amazon plans to lay off 14,000 managerial positions to save $3.5B yearly

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah because the good ones already left the shitshow to get a job somewhere better. Because they can.

The best are always the first to leave

Their upper managers don't want "best", they want loyal, they want yes men that will make perfect henchmen, that's what best is for them so they get exactly what they're looking for. People who rock the boat aren't gonna cut it.

Re: Amazon plans to lay off 14,000 managerial positions to save $3.5B yearly

#32
post #24

I'm going to make the observation that politics in a company is caused by management. The more "politics" you have at a company, the more you pay in a "political tax". Effort which should benefit the company is delayed or made harder as employees have to bob and weave to get through the politics. I do believe if you want real culture change in a company, the best way to do it is to show managers the door, because tha…

Deming agreed with you: Quality control is a management problem. But there's management and there's management. If we're talking about 14000 people, they're not the top managers of the business, and getting rid of them won't change the culture.

They're workers, and Deming also said: Don't blame the workers.

Re: Amazon plans to lay off 14,000 managerial positions to save $3.5B yearly

#35
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, the worst of them are lodged in there tighter than trichinella larvae.

Yeah because the good ones already left the shitshow to get a job somewhere better. Because they can.

This is true. I've also found that there are perverse incentives when it comes to (especially upper) management. Building up enough political clout in your organization that aren't answerable to many people, and managing your image among the few you are answerable to, is the best skill one can have if the outcome is steady long term employment. Providing value to your company and coworkers doesn't correlate as much with surviving corporate haircuts like these.

Re: Amazon plans to lay off 14,000 managerial positions to save $3.5B yearly

#36
post #10
post #2

So they finally figured out most managers are not just useless, but literally a drag to the company and progress?

In my experience, the worst of them are lodged in there tighter than trichinella larvae.

A manager decides to spend their energy managing their relationships up, down or sideways. The very worst will focus solely on managing the upwards relationship, but that's precisely what makes them hard to dislodge: Every second of their day is spent on efforts that helped their job security by relationship building.

So it's not just that the best manager is also the best at finding a new job, but that every second they spend improving their org's performance is a second they don't spend trying to fool a typically not-so-good middle manager into thinking they are indispensable.

This is also why, every time I've seen manager culls, I have found that it was rare for upper management's idea of who was easier to replace was to match that of peers and reports. The ability of the bad manager to hide the truth from the exec is much stronger than people realize.

Re: Amazon plans to lay off 14,000 managerial positions to save $3.5B yearly

#37
post #11
post #2

So they finally figured out most managers are not just useless, but literally a drag to the company and progress?

The managers are just following the (fairly absurd imo), amazon internal processes for the most part. If the processes don't change, there are just going to be a bunch of overloaded managers. The current processes, culture, and 'principles'/dogmas are inefficient, contradictory and toxic af.

that's the definition of an incompetent / mediocre manager. Most organizations expect their employees and managers in poarticular to be "breaking doors", which is the opposite attitude to blindly following any internal process.

Re: Amazon plans to lay off 14,000 managerial positions to save $3.5B yearly

#38
post #2

So they finally figured out most managers are not just useless, but literally a drag to the company and progress?

I'm interested to hear what type of structure you prefer over one that has managers overseeing developers.

Or are you saying you just need to find the good managers? I might have misunderstood.

I'm honestly interested in alternatives.

Re: Amazon plans to lay off 14,000 managerial positions to save $3.5B yearly

#39
post #24

I'm going to make the observation that politics in a company is caused by management. The more "politics" you have at a company, the more you pay in a "political tax". Effort which should benefit the company is delayed or made harder as employees have to bob and weave to get through the politics. I do believe if you want real culture change in a company, the best way to do it is to show managers the door, because tha…

Nah, they're both downstream of complexity. Complexity creates both managers and politics. But managers do create more complexity and more politics.

The problem in companies like this is there are often few incentives for reducing complexity, even in a company like Amazon that claims to value eliminating it.

Re: Amazon plans to lay off 14,000 managerial positions to save $3.5B yearly

#40

This is old news and refers to the 15% figure that was announced last year (more than 6 months ago!) and for which the "layoffs" are already completed. Overall, nothing at all happened, managers looked after their own kind and the worst that happened for some was having to go back to IC positions. The article is most likely AI generated since it says this was announced "last month" and the article is from March, but…

1. Amazon announces new IC to Manager ratio target. Meeting this target would mean an overall reduction in the number of managers.

2. Someone at Morgan Stanley assumes that lay offs will be the mechanism used to reach the target ratio and does some math that says this'll save $XX billion, based on the number of employees at Amazon and the average manager salary.

3. Business Insider reports on the Morgan Stanley memo.

4. This trash article re-reports on it for some reason.

In reality, teams were re-org'd, managers became ICs. Maybe some were PIP'd. No large layoffs though.

Post reply on HN