I'm currently building an offline-first app that has a custom sync between a local SQLite and Postgres (Supabase). The "ejectable" idea here is so good and I will definitely implement something that turns all your saved data into a spreadsheet with a few tabs.
Local-First and Ejectable
21–30 of 44 posts
Re: Local-First and Ejectable
#22Not related to the topic, but I first came across Thymer about (I want to say) 2 years ago when I looked for a todo.txt GUI. I found the blog they used to document building it: https://80daystartup.com/ Somehow, this thing is still not available for testing yet. Not hating but isn’t this supposed to be the category where new solutions launch every single day? While I am still very much interested, I’ve lost any hope…
Hah yes it took a while, thanks for following! When we started the blog we initially thought of building something very small, but along the way realized that the kind of thing we would really love using ourselves would be a much bigger project. It basically involved building a completely new editor from scratch, sync engine, adding multiplayer and end-to-end-encryption, and so on. It would definitely have been faster to take shortcuts and use many existing libs and frameworks around editors, UI and syncing, but then it wouldn't have been something meaningfully different I think, as you point out there's plenty of options in the space so why take the same approach.
We're very much still working on it though and it's finally at the point where it's just some polish, so pretty sure next Q.
Re: Local-First and Ejectable
#23> Being able to run the server executable locally. This should allow you to simply open the workspace data and continue where you left off.
The "server executable" is where basically all of the value provided by these kinds of companies exists. If it were freely downloadable and self-hostable by customers, then the company would be giving away its main value prop, and would only be able to generate revenue by, I dunno, acting as a hosting provider? Those margins are tiny and always getting smaller. It doesn't make sense.
Re: Local-First and Ejectable
#24> Being able to run the server executable locally. This should allow you to simply open the workspace data and continue where you left off. The "server executable" is where basically all of the value provided by these kinds of companies exists. If it were freely downloadable and self-hostable by customers, then the company would be giving away its main value prop, and would only be able to generate revenue by, I dunn…
I think you are underestimating how much people and businesses are willing to pay for convenience. For a business, especially, if the hosting provider costs are less (or even slightly more) than the pro-rated salary cost of the employee who'll need to keep the service up-and-running, that's a clear win.
Re: Local-First and Ejectable
#25> Being able to run the server executable locally. This should allow you to simply open the workspace data and continue where you left off. The "server executable" is where basically all of the value provided by these kinds of companies exists. If it were freely downloadable and self-hostable by customers, then the company would be giving away its main value prop, and would only be able to generate revenue by, I dunn…
I think you are underestimating how much people and businesses are willing to pay for convenience. For a business, especially, if the hosting provider costs are less (or even slightly more) than the pro-rated salary cost of the employee who'll need to keep the service up-and-running, that's a clear win.
How did the "server executable" get written in the first place, and how can it be maintained and enhanced over time, if the only revenue stream for the company is from (optional) hosting services? Especially when relevant data for a given customer is small enough that it can be "ejectable" and self-hosted in the first place?
Re: Local-First and Ejectable
#26> Being able to run the server executable locally. This should allow you to simply open the workspace data and continue where you left off. The "server executable" is where basically all of the value provided by these kinds of companies exists. If it were freely downloadable and self-hostable by customers, then the company would be giving away its main value prop, and would only be able to generate revenue by, I dunn…
It doesn’t have to be offered for free. If you sell a lifetime license for your software it’s actually sort of in your interest for customers to self host since then you’re off the hook for server costs.
The main thrust here is if you buy a “lifetime” license, it should be your lifetime, not the lifetime of the company that sold it to you.
Re: Local-First and Ejectable
#27I think this is a subset of the fifth (of the seven) ideals of local-first software https://www.inkandswitch.com/local-first/#5-the-long-now > Local-first software enables greater longevity because your data, and the software that is needed to read and modify your data, are all stored locally on your computer. There are many ways to achieve this goal - open document standards, open source servers, a escrowed release…
The application package you're looking for is a single HTML file with no external dependencies, especially if it avoids minification, obfuscation, or the use of technologies like WASM blobs which require complex external toolchains to disassemble or modify. This is very achievable right now! See tools like TiddlyWiki or Decker, for example.
The primary barrier to an entirely server-free or server-agnostic webapp ecosystem is browser vendors choosing to seal the newest JavaScript APIs behind "secure contexts" which are only available to documents served over HTTPS.
Re: Local-First and Ejectable
#28> Being able to run the server executable locally. This should allow you to simply open the workspace data and continue where you left off. The "server executable" is where basically all of the value provided by these kinds of companies exists. If it were freely downloadable and self-hostable by customers, then the company would be giving away its main value prop, and would only be able to generate revenue by, I dunn…
>If it were freely downloadable and self-hostable by customers, then the company would be giving away its main value prop, and would only be able to generate revenue by, I dunno, acting as a hosting provider? Those margins are tiny and always getting smaller.
Maybe the margins aren't as high as some would like, but it's definitely viable. Example: Email.
Re: Local-First and Ejectable
#29I think this is a subset of the fifth (of the seven) ideals of local-first software https://www.inkandswitch.com/local-first/#5-the-long-now > Local-first software enables greater longevity because your data, and the software that is needed to read and modify your data, are all stored locally on your computer. There are many ways to achieve this goal - open document standards, open source servers, a escrowed release…
The application package you're looking for is a single HTML file with no external dependencies, especially if it avoids minification, obfuscation, or the use of technologies like WASM blobs which require complex external toolchains to disassemble or modify. This is very achievable right now! See tools like TiddlyWiki or Decker, for example. The primary barrier to an entirely server-free or server-agnostic webapp ecos…
I agree, I develop small utilities as single HTML for all the reasons you list (and fun), but having to work around browser protections for some various APIs can be a bummer.
The average internet user could be exploited fairly easily if every HTML file had immediate access to all the lower level APIs being introduced[0], and we end up looping back around to some sort of signing or alternative install method (pwa).
Curious to find the balance between distributable and "safe" enough to achieve wide adoption.
0: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Security/Secure...
Re: Local-First and Ejectable
#30I'm currently building an offline-first app that has a custom sync between a local SQLite and Postgres (Supabase). The "ejectable" idea here is so good and I will definitely implement something that turns all your saved data into a spreadsheet with a few tabs.
Sound likes a very interesting project, would you like to elaborate more on the project?