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Career Advice in 2025

lethain.com

81–90 of 185 posts

Re: Career Advice in 2025

#81
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is an extremely dumb take ...ouch! ;) The important part is NOT auto-generating repetitive configs; it's about the effort and skill required to verify that output. On the frontend, we have an easy feedback loop to preview the effects before deploying. That also helps us produce lots of training data for frontend LLM output. On the backend, there is substantial risk with infra changes - you could drop the datab…

You once again seem to be thinking of trivial examples of frontend to say there is an “easy” way to verify the loops. I really wish it were that simple for anything reasonably complex I encountered that were customer-facing — often filled with plugins/apps/micro-frontends/libraries owned by other teams etc or clients. I also think if it were that simple, companies wouldn’t be popping up every now and then trying to s…

> I feel you have a bleak view of frontend as a whole

First of all, let me say, I love frontend. I spent probably a decade building products and tools almost entirely on the frontend. I enjoy interfaces and workflows and visualizations. I don't want you to feel like I'm attacking frontend or frontend developers.

> often filled with plugins/apps/micro-frontends/libraries > It’s much, much harder to go and debug why your customer on X OS, Y Browser and Z GPU

Second of all, it sounds like you're doing some pretty complicated stuff! And that you care a lot about how your work affects people. That's awesome. I don't think LLMs are particularly close to automating web development done at this level.

Here's where I'm coming from: A shockingly large amount of interesting frontend work can now be done, reasonably well, by an LLM. Sure, it's no staff frontend engineer, but you now have people who can't code at all who can dream up little apps and have the LLM actually just build it for them, something actually useful. That is absolutely incredible to me.

I also see the momentum here - if there is any area of software engineering that the model companies are trying to automate, it is frontend engineering. Will they get all the way there? Eh... probably not. But it's going to keep getting better. I think this will make the best frontend engineers much faster and more productive, and will probably make the field more competitive as a result. People will need to learn entire new workflows to stay at the top of the field, and there's no guarantee on how good AI will get. Candidly, I just don't see the same momentum for AI in the database/infra space, and speaking personally, I thought it was the right move to shift in that direction.

Re: Career Advice in 2025

#82
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, that is how many big tech interviews look. I've done 'em too. If one's dream job is a generic, mid-level role at BigTech, then the path is clear - get very good at Leetcode and system design, and flag down a recruiter. My dream jobs tend to be more eclectic, and not necessarily at giant companies. I'm more interested in getting really skilled at a particular type of technology and being hired to work on that…

Most people’s “dreams” have nothing to do with working. Their dream is to have a combination of shit ton of money appear in their bank accounts every pay period and stock to appear in their brokerage account every vesting period. True there are some who want to win the lottery and accept less than their market rate in exchange for “equity” in a non public company that will statistically be worthless. Coding interview…

> Most people’s “dreams” have nothing to do with working. Their dream is to have a combination of shit ton of money appear in their bank accounts every pay period and stock to appear in their brokerage account every vesting period.

Yes.

It took me two years to have the illusion shatter and realize that I simply do not want to work. Imagine spending 8 hours a day plus commute sitting on your ass and writing corporate emails, and calling that self-realization. Or imagine grinding hard for a pay 50% higher than the security guard who's just playing video games, so that you feel like you're above the minimum-wage workers, but in reality you can't escape the poverty either.

I consider myself incredibly lucky to be working in a company where people who give a fuck are a minority, so there's very little pressure to actually do anything, while the pay is decent. I use some of my extra time to do some physical and mental exercise, so that my body doesn't collapse when I finally get to retire, and the rest is just spent watching porn. Being a motivated high-achiever taught me that the more you have, the more you expect, leaving you perpetually dissatisfied. The only way to be happy in life is to say "I'm staying here, this is comfy".

I'm trying to save and invest as much money as I can, so that before my body deteriorates due to aging, I might enjoy some time not having to worry about forces beyond my control or understanding carelessly ruin my life. I'm not planning to do anything spectacular once I get to retire. I'm just going to watch TikTok and I'm going to be happy.

Re: Career Advice in 2025

#83
post #45

I get why someone would want to tell people this, but I think it fails to be advice, as it describes the current state of affairs without much actual guidance for how to do better in it Which, to be fair, no one really seems to be able to answer that meaningfully

The real answer is, leaders chase trends, so to keep them satisfied you need to also chase trends.

Some advises can be:

* learn prompt engineering to impress your boss and next employer

* adapt AI IDE at work, of course don’t go for cline or freemium ones, go for max expensive tier of Cursor/Windsurf/v0 etc

* Take some expensive(more the better) courses and workshops on Agentic topics, build some small projects. Justify your expenditure by citing being more well prepared for AI transition and adapting to new paradigm to strategically beat the competition businesses who will be extinct without employees with such trainings

* build some proof of concept projects to convert the smaller trivial projects to use agentic workflow. Then show these to your boss and put these up on github for future reference

* learn to train smaller models on your own internal documents, build a chat interface on top and give access to your boss(trust me, they will be blown away and will sell this to their superior)

* seed fear in your colleagues’ minds by using AI stuff where possible

Think of this AI as a new trend we must adapt to, just like FE moved from jQuery to React. Life and work goes on, just this wave nudges the complacent bunch to finally get out of their comfort zone and learn something new or get left out.

Re: Career Advice in 2025

#84
post #6

The statement >The current market doesn’t value those skills particularly highly, but instead prioritizes a different set of skills: working in the details, pushing pace, and navigating the technology transition to foundational models / LLMs. depends on the assumption that technology must "transition" to "foundational models / LLMs". The author doesn't seem to interrogate this assumption. In fact, most of the career…

He's describing the current market, not speaking about how the market should be.

No one knows what the "current market" thing really is, people are making wild guesses looking at the hands of other people who also make wild guesses.

Re: Career Advice in 2025

#85
post #68
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm mostly thinking of frontend dev work, but also some types of light backend work that you might see in a CRUD app. And listen, I've done that work, I've done a lot of it, and I saw that it's mostly a career dead-end, becoming more and more automated/copiloted away. It's not a career moat to be a mid-level React developer. By contrast, some things I think are worth pivoting into include infrastructure, databases, d…

Front-End interfaces can be as complex (or more complex) than Back-End/infra/analytics/etc... At the end of the day, it is all about data and the front-end needs to maintain state. If your interface is complex, your state will also be complex.

Theoretically - yes, practically, on average, any of the things you’ve listed is far, far, far more complex than your average frontend that is basically glue between “real” logic and user.

Re: Career Advice in 2025

#86
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, all stocks are dead and tech heavy Nasdaq has entered the correction zone this year. It will be a real while before the stocks return to their pre-correction value. The AI hype drivers have lost massive value, hence the desperation will get immense, expect the “AI ready to replace expensive SWE/Lawyer/Entertainers/Creatives” narrative to start any moment now! Of course everything is smoke&mirrors so those w…

Correction is one thing but saying "stocks are dead" is hyperbole. Just my poor ass startup is paying Google Cloud around 1 million USD a year to have our operations going. We're quite a cheap company but we're totally dependent on them. And Cloud is a minor part of Google's earnings they have Youtube, Search, Android etc etc. This isn't a bubble, these are real earnings that are probably not going away any time soon…

I meant red(dead). Also losing a lot of valuation after jacking up to that point is not fun.

Also a business paying $1M/year in cloud bill is neither poor nor tiny. We have very different definition of tiny and poor.

Meta is very well suited in this AI race and will prevail well. Others will cut some loss and throw some ashes sometime soon.

Re: Career Advice in 2025

#87
post #74
post #7

Some more free advice, in no particular order: * Try to get at least one job offer every year, even if you don't accept it. * Look at the requirements for your dream job and figure out what you need to learn to qualify. * Pick one skill and get very good at it. Spend an hour a day on it for a year. * Steer away from skills like web development that are clearly getting eaten by LLMs. * Look for work in major U.S. tech…

> Steer away from skills like web development that are clearly getting eaten by LLMs On the contrary, here in my corner of EU nearly 60% of new jobs are frontend or full stack. Anything else left is mostly SAP consultant or DevOps. I think, the whole WebDev is dead end is just false lies to dissuade new entrants. Literally most successful business with a digital solution is web stuff with some automation that would o…

There's another factor here I forgot to mention - web development, as a specialization, tends to be paid less and has a lower career ceiling in many companies than backend and infra engineering. This is a personal observation on my part but I've seen many other people remark on this. True full stack engineering, I think, is reasonably safe from the robots at the moment.

If someone likes building products, I'd basically recommend that they not go 100% full-bore on frontend engineering, definitely go for "full-stack", and accept that a lot of frontend code is trivia that you can just ask the LLM for these days. I would also recommend that they develop solid product management and UX skills.

Re: Career Advice in 2025

#88
post #66
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can be as snarky as you want but the reality is we're years deep into a market cycle that has seen a tremendous amount of capex with very little visible return. How much more productive do you think claude makes you as compared to Google or Stack Overflow? 15%? 50%? 200? Do you think that's enough to satisfy the market or are we all trading on unrealistic expectations? Do you think shareholders are going to like…

You don't stop the car but speed up faster toward the wall. That has been the strategy in the last decade or so. In other words, you invent a new AI-BLOCK-WEB-4.X thing and move the bubble one stage further.

Just like we study the “Crash of 1929”, our kids will study the “bubbles economy”:

- Internet bubble 2001, - Blockchain bubble 2021, - AI bubble 2025,

(Omitting 2008 and Covid because they’re not startup-related).

Am I wrong or are they bubbling faster?

Re: Career Advice in 2025

#89
post #6

The statement >The current market doesn’t value those skills particularly highly, but instead prioritizes a different set of skills: working in the details, pushing pace, and navigating the technology transition to foundational models / LLMs. depends on the assumption that technology must "transition" to "foundational models / LLMs". The author doesn't seem to interrogate this assumption. In fact, most of the career…

> The author doesn't seem to interrogate this assumption.

Neither do my senior leaders, so it might as well be true.

Re: Career Advice in 2025

#90
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You once again seem to be thinking of trivial examples of frontend to say there is an “easy” way to verify the loops. I really wish it were that simple for anything reasonably complex I encountered that were customer-facing — often filled with plugins/apps/micro-frontends/libraries owned by other teams etc or clients. I also think if it were that simple, companies wouldn’t be popping up every now and then trying to s…

> I feel you have a bleak view of frontend as a whole First of all, let me say, I love frontend. I spent probably a decade building products and tools almost entirely on the frontend. I enjoy interfaces and workflows and visualizations. I don't want you to feel like I'm attacking frontend or frontend developers. > often filled with plugins/apps/micro-frontends/libraries > It’s much, much harder to go and debug why yo…

> I enjoy interfaces and workflows and visualizations. I don't want you to feel like I'm attacking frontend or frontend developers.

I hope you mean that but it's hard to see it that way based on your original comment and responses. The trope of "frontend is not a serious job" has been infuriatingly going on for a long time before LLMs took the center stage and that seeps out of the things you've said so far.

But, I'm glad if you mean what you said above.

> Here's where I'm coming from: A shockingly large amount of interesting frontend work can now be done, reasonably well, by an LLM. Sure, it's no staff frontend engineer, but you now have people who can't code at all who can dream up little apps and have the LLM actually just build it for them, something actually useful. That is absolutely incredible to me.

And this is where I'm coming from, based on your original reductive narrative on LLMs overtaking frontend and that the field is somehow at risk — if you feel the same way, you can apply these _exact_ arguments to a _shockingly_ large portion of backend too. I could say most are just glorified spreadsheets. Moreover, a lot of startups just use one of the "serverless" platforms and won't think twice about database, devops, security, authn/authz until they hit an escape velocity.

But I personally think meaningful engineering solving real-world problems at scale that is meant to be an enjoyable experience for the user should be well thought through, end-to-end, regardless of the smaller scopes within.

> Candidly, I just don't see the same momentum for AI in the database/infra space, and speaking personally, I thought it was the right move to shift in that direction.

Partly, I think you are probably forgetting that a lot of these startups promising all of this also promise the backend stuff, even if you might disagree with the choice of tech stack (usually React/Next w/ Supabase/Planetscale/Firebase) and the deployment environment (usually something like Vercel). And the reason why the frontend part is front and center is because... well... that's what the users ultimately interact with. They don't give two shits about the stack (front & back) as long as the product works and works well. But it'd be naive to think this didn't involve all the automated code being spit out on the backend side as well.

And let's forget AI for a moment, by this line of thinking, a large portion of the backend engineering you talk about have been available in simplified forms via serverless offerings or via low-code offerings. Same for databases, including branching and claims of seamless migrations and backup. So, maybe you should have started panicking way before modern LLMs hit the scene? :)

But you probably won't because like me, you realize it's not that simple and it's not always practical. Same reason why I am not using Framer/v0/ to build a non-trivial front-end app with growing complexity.

I'm a cautious optimist in this space. I do think the tech we got so far is cool and groundbreaking and I use them extensively for noodling. But at the end of the day right now, they're still tools. We are seeing the AI leaders shifting goalposts every day, complain about lack of data etc. and I honestly believe we are many more breakthroughs away from getting to the dream world you're thinking of, especially when broadly generalizing things.

> Aside: I'm also pretty sure you can find plenty of "AI" companies promising automated DevOps/Backend/Database etc. just within https://www.ycombinator.com/companies (try keyword searches).

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