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A look at Firefox forks

lwn.net

351–360 of 390 posts

Re: A look at Firefox forks

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After a short time with it, I find it kinda funny. Back then, power users were up in arms about things like the omnibar, and chrome removing more and more parts of the actual URL. And here is a browser marketed at power users that goes beyond that, showing only a small fraction. There doesn’t even seem to be a Zen mod that restores a real usable URL bar. For me, I manipulate URLs every day, both for work and private…

Manual URL editing is unbelievably painful on mobile and all the kids only use their phones these days - I guess this includes all the cool kid engineers making browsers.

This is extremely true, especially when holding backspace and when you hold it a bit too long, the speed increases! Trying to remove query parameters, such as used for Google Analytics tracking, can be extremely frustrating.

Re: A look at Firefox forks

#352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. Even core features like bookmarks have barely improved in decades. All the emphasis has been on skin-deep UI refreshes, gimmicks, ways to monetize the user, and ways for developers to control the user’s experience. I used to be a big fan of OmniWeb back in its day because it pushed the envelope in adding utility and emphasized its role as a powerful tool that put the user in control. It included things…

> skin-deep UI refresh Colorways anyone? How about tabs that now look like buttons for no conceivable purpose but fashion? I would pay for an exploer-like sidebar with folders and containers as the top-level folders. Almost have that now with "tree tabs" extension and containers, but the interface is kludgy. This plus a privacy guarantee would be worth paying for.

> How about tabs that now look like buttons for no conceivable purpose but fashion?

I use this to bring the normal tabs back:

https://github.com/black7375/Firefox-UI-Fix

Re: A look at Firefox forks

#353
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is wrong with a bot creating an account? Is their money not as green?

I'd guess that their problem is data pollution (marketing unhappy, ads impressions unaligned, data needs to be cleaned anyway before PowerPoint presentations for shareholders are made). And technically: unnecessary database growth which impacts migration efficiency, backup size and duration and stuff like that.

They don't seem to care about ad impressions being unaligned when their ads hit people who consider all forms of advertising to be a form of offensive and unauthorized graffiti on the mind, AKA vandalism.

Re: A look at Firefox forks

#354

Zen looks like Arc Browser, but Firefox-based and open-source. Exactly what I'm looking for! The UX pattern for tabs in Arc is amazing. No, it's not just "vertical tabs". It's an innovative blend of the concepts of bookmarks and open tabs. Sort of like files: they can be open or closed, and live in a folder hierarchy. But the development of Arc stopped half a year ago (except security Chromium updates), with a well-w…

Have you compared the experience to using Sidebery? Every FF alternative I've tried comes up short to the power of what Sidebery can do with tree style tabs.

Re: A look at Firefox forks

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manual URL editing is unbelievably painful on mobile and all the kids only use their phones these days - I guess this includes all the cool kid engineers making browsers.

This is extremely true, especially when holding backspace and when you hold it a bit too long, the speed increases! Trying to remove query parameters, such as used for Google Analytics tracking, can be extremely frustrating.

try control + backspace

Re: A look at Firefox forks

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox has made a few headlines over the past year for privacy-unfriendly moves. That's the context you're missing, despite it being in some of the first sentences of the linked article.

> privacy-unfriendly moves Which is a UX issue, not a Web standards issue. None of the major forks were made due to a difference opinion about how the standards should be implemented, so they are all dependent on Mozilla to implement the standards.

I suppose, but I wouldn't try to predict the response to Firefox becoming unmaintained and interested parties who might step up to carry the torch before it actually happens. It's the primary browser of the largest three commercial Linux distros.

Re: A look at Firefox forks

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The money brought in would be used to pay an open source developer to work strictly on things intended to be sent upstream to the Mozilla Firefox." For years I've advocated a system that's a halfway measure between normal commercial for-profit software and free open-source. The organizational structure would be a nonprofit revenue-neutral company or cooperative society (depending on company law in the domiciled coun…

> The license could be structured so that only the user who compiles the code would be licensed to used it (general distribution would be prohibited). Firefox is already GPL'ed, such a license change would violate that (along with many libraries it depends on also being GPL'ed). This is not possible. Here at ardour.org, we use this: > either compiled binaries for a minimal cost or as free open-source code. (technical…

"Firefox is already GPL'ed, such a license change would violate that (along with many libraries it depends on also being GPL'ed). This is not possible."

I understand that, and I accept it as a problem. I only used LibreOffice and Gimp as examples of large projects that have issues, I should have made it clear I wasn't suggesting they convert to a different licensing model. Clearly, under GPL-type licensing converting to another licensing structure would be nigh on impossible. Nevertheless, that they can't raises issues which I'll mention.

My suggestion arose out of what I perceive as a problem with some open-source projects. Let's take a look:

There are many open-source and commercial programs that are now effectively abandoned-ware but given the right incentive some could be resurrected and turned into useful products. View this another way: a lot of human effort has gone into making both commercial and open-source programs and letting all that effort go to waste doesn't make sense if there's a viable alternative. That said, we know that finding the right 'incentive' has proved difficult and elusive.

Both developers of open-source and commercial programs often have good reasons for stopping further development of their programs. For open-source developers often the incentive wains and having to continually maintain a program without financial reward turns into drudgery. Likewise, a developer of a small commercial program will stop further development for various reasons some of which are similar to those of open-source developers.

I'll give you an example, I still use a Windows file management utility produced by an individual developer which I purchased about 15 years ago and unfortunately he has ceased further development of the program. Trouble is that program is for my purposes the best-of-class for reasons I can't dwell upon here but it needs updating to a Unicode base (I still use it regularly but it throws errors with filenames containing non-ASCII characters).

I've exchanged emails with the developer and I fully understand why he's ceased development (he has good reasons). A very similar situation exists with some open-source developers, they've ceased development of their programs for similar reasons. Unfortunately, in both instance users are left with abandoned-ware.

With both open-source and proprietary software, many programmers still hold residual vested interests in their code even through they've ceased developing it. Often, this revolves around the fact that they don't want others to benefit financially at their expense even though for various reasons it's difficult for them to actually profit directly. (Let's face it, that's understandable—it's pretty much human nature.)

The result is an impasse: open-source code stagnates in the hope others will continue its development, which may or may not happen (and often it doesn't). Similarly, commercial code is neglected and or goes into limbo. And more often than not it ends up dead and abandoned.

Clearly, the gulf between open-source/GPL and proprietary software licensing is not only wide but also contentious. In respect of these problems I've no better solution than anyone else except to say that I believe there ought to be some better system or mechanism whereby open-source developers can at least receive some renumeration for their efforts. Providing an additional financial incentive to developers would also significantly benefit users.

Obviously—given current licensing arrangements—the halfway measure I've suggested would only be applicable to new projects, and that alone poses additional problems. The fact remains we need to find some way of providing better incentives to developers so as to ensure important open-source projects are developed in a timely and professional way as is so for the best commercial software. By that, I'm certainly not saying that all open-source projects aren't being developed in a professional manner as clearly many are. But then there are many that are struggling. How we best deal with them remains open.

Re: A look at Firefox forks

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried Sidebery for a couple of months off the back of multiple recommendations and while it has some decent features, I found it surprisingly lacking in terms of basic features like "close multiple tabs". I also found it regularly would semi-regularly prevent me from clicking on tabs which was frustrating until I restarted the extension or Firefox. In the end I found good old Tree Style Tabs was better. I just wish…

I use Sidebery a lot and I'd like to know what exactly you mean by "close multiple tabs"? I currently drag with right click in Sidebery and then click close tabs in the popup menu, however I don't really like doing this way. How is it done in Tree Style Tabs?

I have TST set up thus: closing a tab will close all its child tabs, if that branch is collapsed. Pretty sure Sidebery can be configured the same way.

Re: A look at Firefox forks

#360
post #319

Haven't seen this mentioned yet, not a fork but a suite of configs and mods for Firefox. https://codeberg.org/celenity/Phoenix

This looks cool, am I missing the Windows client, or is it only available on *nix systems?

To install on Windows you have to manually install the configs on top of an existing Firefox install. Instructions are on the website.
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