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Evidence that Neanderthal and Homo sapiens engaged in cultural exchange

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Re: Evidence that Neanderthal and Homo sapiens engaged in cultural exchange

#21

Post by dmitrygr »

op00to wrote: post #19
dmitrygr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interpretation of "you won’t catch them saying it in public though" that you offer is NOT the only one. The one the OP most likely meant is: "out of fear for their careers and livelihoods, they will not state such things given that such facts are outside of the current overton window"

Controversial scientific topics are actively discussed in academic journals and conferences. Scientists regularly publish challenging or provocative findings, even those outside mainstream acceptance… Provided they’re backed by credible evidence. The absence of discussion here isn’t due to fear of consequences. It’s because the scientific community hasn’t found convincing evidence linking Neanderthal DNA to major beh…

I was merely explaining what the OP likely meant, assuming your reply was in good faith and you really did not understand

Re: Evidence that Neanderthal and Homo sapiens engaged in cultural exchange

#22

Post by Mistletoe »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #14

[flagged]

I'm a biologist, I wouldn't be caught saying it in private or public because it's incorrect.

Lots of good discussion here about should Neanderthal and Homo sapiens be a separate species. Like most nature questions the answer seems to always be "It's complicated."

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAnthropology/comments/mq5u7n/why...

A neat map here showing how much Neanderthal DNA exists in modern humans. Never goes much above 3%.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/hgdioe/prevalence_...

Re: Evidence that Neanderthal and Homo sapiens engaged in cultural exchange

#23

Post by IncreasePosts »

metalman wrote: post #12

so we are all part, Ugg, or is it part Ugg-et, or is it both?, ie: y and x chromasones have nieanderthal bits?, if its both, then that is a strong indication that things were pretty casual, ,hanging out partying, looks like Ugg and Sue are hitting it off, some tasty mastadon on the fire, heard you and the other nieandethals got a saber tooth cat last week

Why call Neanderthal ugg? Homo sapiens were probably Ugg too.

Re: Evidence that Neanderthal and Homo sapiens engaged in cultural exchange

#24

Post by stormfather »

op00to wrote: post #19
dmitrygr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interpretation of "you won’t catch them saying it in public though" that you offer is NOT the only one. The one the OP most likely meant is: "out of fear for their careers and livelihoods, they will not state such things given that such facts are outside of the current overton window"

Controversial scientific topics are actively discussed in academic journals and conferences. Scientists regularly publish challenging or provocative findings, even those outside mainstream acceptance… Provided they’re backed by credible evidence. The absence of discussion here isn’t due to fear of consequences. It’s because the scientific community hasn’t found convincing evidence linking Neanderthal DNA to major beh…

There are a few topics, like racial differences, which are pretty verboten. Here's an interesting example: https://davidsun.substack.com/p/the-origins-of-arcticism-the...

Re: Evidence that Neanderthal and Homo sapiens engaged in cultural exchange

#25

Post by kacesensitive »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #14

[flagged]

To claim that "we are Neanderthals" is wrong because while modern humans and Neanderthals share a common ancestor and interbred, Neanderthals were a distinct species that went extinct. Genetic contributions from Neanderthals to modern humans are minor, typically around 1-2% in non-African populations, and do not make us Neanderthal in any meaningful sense. Moreover, the idea that specific Neanderthal genes explain large behavioral differences among human populations is not supported by scientific consensus—human behavior is shaped by a complex mix of genetics, culture, and environment. While some Neanderthal-derived genes may have influenced traits like immune response or altitude adaptation, the assertion that they drive major behavioral differences is speculative and echoes outdated, often racially charged ideas about genetic determinism. Biologists do discuss these topics openly, but they do so within the rigorous framework of evolutionary genetics, not unfounded assumptions about "large portions of variances" in human behavior.

Re: Evidence that Neanderthal and Homo sapiens engaged in cultural exchange

#26

Post by ChoHag »

Mistletoe wrote: post #22
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #14

[flagged]

I'm a biologist, I wouldn't be caught saying it in private or public because it's incorrect. Lots of good discussion here about should Neanderthal and Homo sapiens be a separate species. Like most nature questions the answer seems to always be "It's complicated." https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAnthropology/comments/mq5u7n/why... A neat map here showing how much Neanderthal DNA exists in modern humans. Never goes much ab…

[dead]

Re: Evidence that Neanderthal and Homo sapiens engaged in cultural exchange

#27

Post by vkou »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #14

[flagged]

> Clearly, certain populations have much different mixtures, which explains large portions of variances in human behavior.

Citation needed.

Geneticists can, at best, sometimes figure out what any particular gene does, and yet here you are claiming that you can tie broad behavior differences to traces of the Neanderthal genetic code (Weird, since geneticists can at best, barely correlate the smallest differences in behaviour to particular genes). That's an extraordinary claim, and would require some truly extraordinary evidence.

Behavioral genetics does not have the predictive power that you think it does.

Couching scientific racism behind the fig leaf of 'Behavioural geneticists all know this but refuse to talk about it', fortunately, requires absolutely no actual evidence. In fact, the absence of evidence for it is viewed as evidence for it!

Re: Evidence that Neanderthal and Homo sapiens engaged in cultural exchange

#28

Post by mmooss »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #5
andsoitis wrote: post #3

I mean, we already knew that we exchanged genes so is it not therefore self-evident that we also exchanged memes?

Plunder/Raping raids don't necessarilyead to trading and meaningful conversations do they?

> Plunder/Raping raids

What are you referring to? Is there evidence of that being most of the way they interacted?

Re: Evidence that Neanderthal and Homo sapiens engaged in cultural exchange

#29

Post by mmooss »

do_not_redeem wrote: post #7
OgsyedIE wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't captives carry memes?

Only if you and your captives are able to communicate. If you have a fish tank, do your fish give you memes?

Why wouldn't they learn to communicate, like all other humans do?

Re: Evidence that Neanderthal and Homo sapiens engaged in cultural exchange

#30

Post by mmooss »

andsoitis wrote: post #3

I mean, we already knew that we exchanged genes so is it not therefore self-evident that we also exchanged memes?

It's a matter of degree. Of course they learned some things from each other, but did or could the groups have largely similar cultures? The term used in the paper is "behavioral uniformity", which is more than exchanging a few memes. And what does that say about how much and how deeply they interacted? From the abstract:

The south Levantine mid-Middle Palaeolithic (mid-MP; ~130–80 thousand years ago (ka)) is remarkable for its exceptional evidence of human morphological variability, with contemporaneous fossils of Homo sapiens and Neanderthal-like hominins. ... We suggest that the development of this behavioural uniformity is due to intensified inter-population interactions and admixture between Homo groups ~130–80 ka.

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