> It should be as simple as possible (but not simpler) I have seen this phrase a number of times. What does it mean?
Any simpler and it would not be effective for it's intended purpose?
Milk Kanban
101–110 of 173 posts
Re: Milk Kanban
#102> In its original meaning, Kanban represented a visual signal. The thing that communicated, well, something. It might have been a need, option, availability, capacity, request, etc. > the system is self-explanatory I've always known of this as an "affordance" - An available & apparent interaction between an object and its user. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Design_of_Everyday_Things
That's a great analogy!
On the one hand, the context is different. An affordance, as you point out, signals how we should use an item. In a way, it suggests a meaning. A kanban's meaning is typically defined as the process (largely) is known.
In the story about Milk Kanban, the index card is self-explanatory, but that's just an extra bit, to make the process more bullet-proof.
On the other hand, if we generalize both examples, we land in a place where the design (of things, of processes) should communicate how to act. I either interact with an object or I do my action within a process.
BTW: The Design of Everyday Things is another great reading recommendation in this thread.
Re: Milk Kanban
#103Cigarette rolling paper comes in a flat pack, from which you take the papers one by one, like a box of Kleenex. Towards the bottom of the pack, there's gonna be an odd-colored piece of paper, after which there still gonna be 10 pieces left in the box. The odd-colored paper tells you that it's time to buy a new pack, but you still have 10 cigarettes' worth. Edit: found a photo of this phenomenon on r/antiassholedesign…
One of the episodes of The Simpsons I saw as a kid that had a surprisingly large impact on how I think was where Willie had cameras in all of the bathrooms to monitor if they needed the toilet roll changed: “That roll of towels is nearin' its end! She's on double red stripe!”
I absolutely did read this in Willies voice.
Re: Milk Kanban
#104Cigarette rolling paper comes in a flat pack, from which you take the papers one by one, like a box of Kleenex. Towards the bottom of the pack, there's gonna be an odd-colored piece of paper, after which there still gonna be 10 pieces left in the box. The odd-colored paper tells you that it's time to buy a new pack, but you still have 10 cigarettes' worth. Edit: found a photo of this phenomenon on r/antiassholedesign…
I recently noticed that there was a "Time to order" message written on the outside of the cardboard core of my saran wrap. The visibility to the core became clearer as the wrap was consumed- giving both a sense of urgency, as well as not letting you forget. I thought it was pretty clever.
Re: Milk Kanban
#105> It should be as simple as possible (but not simpler) I have seen this phrase a number of times. What does it mean?
There is a level of oversimplification beyond which the solution stops serving its purpose.
If this discussion board was just a shared doc in which everyone could write, that might be a "too simple" solution. Basic control over one's writing is what we expect in solutions such as this.
With Milk Kanban, it might have been just asking people to tell Kasia when they take the last carton. Would it be a simpler solution? Yes. Would it work? Well, I guess there is a reason why we do have these index cards.
Re: Milk Kanban
#106In the office I worked it was never an issue that we were out of milk. It was that people brought in their own milk cartoons and put them in the fridge, so others could have milk too. Nice. Thanks to whoever brought it! But then nobody removed that cartoon from fridge so it started to stink, and remained in the fridge still. Then no-one in particual was eager to tackle the bad smell, it definitely was not their job.
I implemented the "three sticker rule" at my office. Every Friday, put a neon dot sticker on _everything_ in the fridge. Instead of putting a fourth sticker on anything, throw it out.
Because "anyone could do it", it usually ends up that "no one does it".
Re: Milk Kanban
#107It’s an interesting idea, but I’m not convinced it’s a good one. Office managers (or any kind of managers, really) are hired to remove a class of problems, so other people can focus on their job. This is outsourcing bits and pieces of your responsibilities to random coworkers. That being said, none of it is uncommon in modern corporate workplace.
Wow! This escalated quickly.
In this whole sub-thread, I see quite a lot of signals along the lines of: - that's someone else's job, I shouldn't be bothered - I'm doing valuable work, others should make it easy for me - (all sorts of) managers are to make some problems inexistent for me
I'm not saying that's all in the original thread, but I read such sentiment.
So here's something that we do that may be unusual.
We respect everyone's roles and work. As much as Kasia wouldn't jump on a project as a developer, none of our developers would take her seat and handle all the stuff she deals with daily. Heck, she routinely helps people dealing with all sorts of paperwork that, especially for foreigners, are major pain in the butt. Which is "funny" because it's just "simple paperwork anyone could do."
And before someone throws at me that anyone can order milk online, that's like a hundredth priority or something like that.
Anyway, starting from a place where we all respect each other and everyone's work, dropping an index card on someone's desk on the way to one's own is a non-issue.
I acknowledge, though, that in an environment where people don't respect others' work because whatever (they have a less prestigious role, they're paid less, etc.), folks may totally perceive that a problem.
And yes, establishing such respect is so much harder than making sure that milk is in a frigging cupboard.
Re: Milk Kanban
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
So in terms of SW development would that mean we have slips saying "Only 5 Tasks left, come up with new ones"?
The central idea is that traditional manufacturing (and software) environments attempt to PUSH work through the system. This leads to tons of unintended consequences that ultimately sacrifices quality and throughput. Not only defeating the purpose of applying the pressure, but also (sometimes) destroying the reputation of the organizations that do it. The observation of the Toyota Production System, was that we shoul…
the pull/push distinction is excellent, thankyou
Re: Milk Kanban
#109The system seems inefficient, as the sticky notes look the same. So Kasia has to go to the cupboard and check what to buy.
They probably want to check anyway to see if anything else is getting low (or ran out because a note wasn't delivered) to decrease the number of restocking orders placed. The notes just help indicate when an order needs to be placed earlier than expected.
The order typically runs with not just milk but all the supplies. It's just the "going out of milk" trigger happens most frequently.
And yes, using different kinds/colors of cards for different kinds of milk might have been an improvement to consider. It would, however, make the system more complicated. Was it me, I'd start with a simpler design and iterate only when I saw the need.
It follows the rule of thumb: make it as simple as possible.
Re: Milk Kanban
#110> When people say Kanban, they tend to think of a specific set of practices. Whiteboards & sticky notes (both almost universally virtual). When software developers say Kanban, they tend to think of whiteboards. For anyone who works in manufacturing they would have thought about replenishment first. It is completely ubiquitous anywhere where taking something from a location signals a need for replenishment.These days…
> I understand the literal translation of Kanban is 'coloured badge' btw
看板 - 看 "look at; watch", 板 "board; plank".
For the Japanese word, https://ejje.weblio.jp/content/%E7%9C%8B%E6%9D%BF has "看板 - signboard; billboard" (and also "hoarding", "draw; attraction", and "closing time").