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Milk Kanban

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Re: Milk Kanban

#81

Post by ruraljuror »

throwaway7783 wrote: post #80
meindnoch wrote: post #14

Cigarette rolling paper comes in a flat pack, from which you take the papers one by one, like a box of Kleenex. Towards the bottom of the pack, there's gonna be an odd-colored piece of paper, after which there still gonna be 10 pieces left in the box. The odd-colored paper tells you that it's time to buy a new pack, but you still have 10 cigarettes' worth. Edit: found a photo of this phenomenon on r/antiassholedesign…

I think this is now a common pattern. Simplehuman trash bag boxes have a tag that says "you are running low", on the 10th (or so) bag from last.

My first thought as well. Simplehuman, whose products and designs I admire, also include QR codes to reorder on the reminder and a refrigerator magnet included with the trashcan.

Re: Milk Kanban

#82

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

I don’t know much about kanban but doesn’t this basically create work for others to bring the milk paper back? I can see how this works and is efficient in a way, but it removes the work for the person to monitor the milk stock.

Re: Milk Kanban

#83

Post by weaksauce »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #82

I don’t know much about kanban but doesn’t this basically create work for others to bring the milk paper back? I can see how this works and is efficient in a way, but it removes the work for the person to monitor the milk stock.

sure it creates some work for someone that is invested in getting more milk for their coffee. hardly onerous and removes a lot of daily checking for the purchaser.

Re: Milk Kanban

#84

Post by flail »

jimnotgym wrote: post #37

> When people say Kanban, they tend to think of a specific set of practices. Whiteboards & sticky notes (both almost universally virtual). When software developers say Kanban, they tend to think of whiteboards. For anyone who works in manufacturing they would have thought about replenishment first. It is completely ubiquitous anywhere where taking something from a location signals a need for replenishment.These days…

That's true. The notion of what Kanban is differs between knowledge work (stemming mostly from software development adaptations) and manufacturing.

Since my context is primarily IT I made some simplifications when describing the context.

Admittedly, the principles are the same. However, because of the differences in the nature of the work, different areas are stressed. A notable example is how differently "removing waste" is considered between IT and manufacturing.

Anyway, yes, whiteboards and sticky notes are staple artifacts of software development/knowledge work context. "Old-school" (since it started decades earlier there) manufacturing is much more creative with designing visual signals.

On the other hand, knowledge work typically handles uncertainty and variability of work way better. That stems from a different type of process (more creative, less repeatable) and unique nature of each individual task.

Re: Milk Kanban

#85

Post by anymouse123456 »

switchbak wrote: post #77
anymouse123456 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The central idea is that traditional manufacturing (and software) environments attempt to PUSH work through the system. This leads to tons of unintended consequences that ultimately sacrifices quality and throughput. Not only defeating the purpose of applying the pressure, but also (sometimes) destroying the reputation of the organizations that do it. The observation of the Toyota Production System, was that we shoul…

> I suspect that has become more of the norm as I've withdrawn into my own little corner of the universe. I often wonder what happened to the early grass roots agile community. I know I’ve withdrawn into my world too, I wonder how common that is? I often feel like we’ve taken steps backward from where we used to be. Not sure how much of that is just my latent curmudgeon though.

I ejected from the craziness and slipped into a quiet little, inexpensive corner to work on things that trigger obsession.

So far, it's gone pretty great, we'll see how long it holds!

Re: Milk Kanban

#86

Post by flail »

eikenberry wrote: post #43
jimnotgym wrote: post #37

> When people say Kanban, they tend to think of a specific set of practices. Whiteboards & sticky notes (both almost universally virtual). When software developers say Kanban, they tend to think of whiteboards. For anyone who works in manufacturing they would have thought about replenishment first. It is completely ubiquitous anywhere where taking something from a location signals a need for replenishment.These days…

I've worked on multiple Kanban software dev teams and a whiteboard never came into play, vs. the scrum or extreme-agile teams which loved them. Kanban seems more about having tickets organized into a priority ordered queue of tasks.

That is an interesting observation.

The first two (and I would say key) practices of Kanban (as a method) are: - visualize work(flow) - limit work in progress

So I wonder, how did these Kanban teams visualize work exactly?

Now, I don't say the whiteboard (virtual or physical) is the only way to do it, yet it's almost ubiquitous.

Re: Milk Kanban

#87

Post by WJW »

oniony wrote: post #21
woleium wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I think i would make it “put this card in the reorder box”

And then they have to poll the reorder box every day?

Technically that's not really a different problem than exists. With the current system, Kaisa has to poll her desk every day to see if new milk needs to be ordered. Depending on what her activities entail, maybe there are entire days when she's not at her office. Some place has to be polled in any case, but we can choose the best place(s).

In an extreme case where there's a 100-floor building with Kaisa's desk on the first floor, it might well be more globally optimal to have boxes every 10 floors being polled, instead of everyone having to move 50 floors on average to her desk.

Re: Milk Kanban

#88

Post by jldugger »

throwaway7783 wrote: post #80
meindnoch wrote: post #14

Cigarette rolling paper comes in a flat pack, from which you take the papers one by one, like a box of Kleenex. Towards the bottom of the pack, there's gonna be an odd-colored piece of paper, after which there still gonna be 10 pieces left in the box. The odd-colored paper tells you that it's time to buy a new pack, but you still have 10 cigarettes' worth. Edit: found a photo of this phenomenon on r/antiassholedesign…

I think this is now a common pattern. Simplehuman trash bag boxes have a tag that says "you are running low", on the 10th (or so) bag from last.

I just put a few at the bottom of the trashcan, so when the box runs out I still have some time to buy a new supply.

Re: Milk Kanban

#89

Post by flail »

jimnotgym wrote: post #75
anymouse123456 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The central idea is that traditional manufacturing (and software) environments attempt to PUSH work through the system. This leads to tons of unintended consequences that ultimately sacrifices quality and throughput. Not only defeating the purpose of applying the pressure, but also (sometimes) destroying the reputation of the organizations that do it. The observation of the Toyota Production System, was that we shoul…

Definitely recommend "The Goal", it is fascinating to see its influence on "The Phoenix Project". I would also offer a recommendation for any jaded hacker. Go and work for a manufacturing company. Seeing real world problems solved by lean experts and process engineers is fascinating. See Kaizen (Continuos incremental improvement) in action in critical systems, systems where a mistake can't be reverted easily and the…

"The Phoenix Project" is basically "The Goal" rewritten in the context of software projects so that people would pick up the ideas easier instead of dismissing them as the "unrelated context."

The authors never hid their intentions on this one.

BTW: both are great reading.

Also, the grand idea described in Goldratt's The Goal is the Theory of Constraints (ToC). While Kanban (as a method) draws from it with the limiting WIP practice, these two don't overlap that heavily.

Re: Milk Kanban

#90

Post by Aurornis »

eikenberry wrote: post #43
jimnotgym wrote: post #37

> When people say Kanban, they tend to think of a specific set of practices. Whiteboards & sticky notes (both almost universally virtual). When software developers say Kanban, they tend to think of whiteboards. For anyone who works in manufacturing they would have thought about replenishment first. It is completely ubiquitous anywhere where taking something from a location signals a need for replenishment.These days…

I've worked on multiple Kanban software dev teams and a whiteboard never came into play, vs. the scrum or extreme-agile teams which loved them. Kanban seems more about having tickets organized into a priority ordered queue of tasks.

> I've worked on multiple Kanban software dev teams and a whiteboard never came into play,

Most teams don’t literally use a physical whiteboard, they use some software that represents the whiteboard.

Do an image search for “Kanban board” and you’ll get a mix of physical whiteboards and software dashboards that imitate the same columnar style.

Though one thing about software development practices is that names have become nearly meaningless as people have adopted different variations. I worked at one company recently that proudly bragged about their “agile methodology” but also demanded everything be planned 6-9 months in advance and made a big deal about tracking metrics for sprint accuracy and failure to complete tickets on time (including too early!).

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