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Is our universe trapped inside a black hole? This JWS Telescope discovery

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Re: Is our universe trapped inside a black hole? This JWS Telescope discovery

#11

Post by nextaccountic »

flowerthoughts wrote: post #5
jagged-chisel wrote: post #3

> These [baby] universes would be unobservable to us because they are also behind an event horizon, a one-way light-trapping point of no return from which light cannot escape, meaning information can never travel from the interior of a black hole to an external observer. Also meaning that “our” blackhole (the one containing us) is unobservable from the parent universe for the same reason. So where is all this extra l…

(Complete hypothesizing from a very cursory understanding.) Perhaps that's dark energy or vacuum energy? If mass and time truly switches places when crossing into a black hole, it would make sense that the spacetime size of this universe translates into observable mass outside it. Which might tie it to the expansion of the universe.

> If mass and time truly switches places when crossing into a black hole

What do you mean by that?

Re: Is our universe trapped inside a black hole? This JWS Telescope discovery

#13

Post by fprog »

An alternate hypothesis which seems equally interesting, albeit for different reasons, is at the end of the article:

> Another explanation for why the JWST may have seen an overrepresentation of galaxies rotating in one direction is that the Milky Way's own rotation could have caused it.

> Previously, scientists had considered the speed of our galaxy's rotation to be too slow to have a non-negligible impact on observations made by the JWST.

> “If that is indeed the case, we will need to re-calibrate our distance measurements for the deep universe," Shamir concluded. "The re-calibration of distance measurements can also explain several other unsolved questions in cosmology such as the differences in the expansion rates of the universe and the large galaxies that according to the existing distance measurements are expected to be older than the universe itself."

Re: Is our universe trapped inside a black hole? This JWS Telescope discovery

#14

Post by jagged-chisel »

alabastervlog wrote: post #10
jagged-chisel wrote: post #3

> These [baby] universes would be unobservable to us because they are also behind an event horizon, a one-way light-trapping point of no return from which light cannot escape, meaning information can never travel from the interior of a black hole to an external observer. Also meaning that “our” blackhole (the one containing us) is unobservable from the parent universe for the same reason. So where is all this extra l…

I figure our whole universe so far has existed in the first nanosecond (or whatever) after the creation of the black hole in the parent universe, so very little energy or light has had time to enter. By one or two seconds in the parent universe’s time scale, our universe will have settled down to its extremely long state of being a cold, dark void of slowly decomposing subatomic particles. No good reason to think thi…

The relative time part is a really interesting thought. Thanks!

Re: Is our universe trapped inside a black hole? This JWS Telescope discovery

#15

Post by dingnuts »

at the bottom of the article the mundane hypothesis is presented that the measurement seen by JWST might be a calibration error caused by the rotation of the Milky Way making it appear that other galaxies have a preferred rotation.

sadly, this is likely the real explanation, but that's not very exciting

Re: Is our universe trapped inside a black hole? This JWS Telescope discovery

#16

Post by sigmoid10 »

This newsblog takes one piece of the paper [1] and blows it up like it's the most obvious thing ever and completely hand-waves away the alternative, while the paper itself actually provides some compelling evidence for the alternative explanation: This asymmetry is because of our own galaxy's rotation. It would be an insane coincidence to have the large scale structure of our universe be more asymmetric towards the poles of our galactic plane and the further you go away from our galaxy (especially when velocity blue shifts would obviously make one type of rotation for galaxies more visible in the high-z regime where JWST primarily looked). Forget black hole cosmology, if you believe what this article suggests, then special relativity itself may be wrong. The data is pretty sound and perfectly in line with earlier observations that found no asymmetry if you believe our own galaxy's rotation is the culprit. So if I had to bet, I'd say we misunderstood galaxies and not the universe as a whole. Mostly because galactic physics is incredibly complicated and has very whimsical empirics, whereas we have some really solid theories and data on the universe as a whole.

[1] https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article/538/1/76/8019798

Re: Is our universe trapped inside a black hole? This JWS Telescope discovery

#17

Post by nextaccountic »

m3kw9 wrote: post #2

Ok but then the theory of black holes are wrong because this isn’t dense at all.

Only the infinitesimally small singularity that is in the future of all objects inside the event horizon is supposed to be very dense. The space inside the event horizon is supposed to be normal-ish

Re: Is our universe trapped inside a black hole? This JWS Telescope discovery

#18

Post by Aerroon »

rocqua wrote: post #8

How does this work with matter falling into 'our' black hole and hawkins-radiation leaving our black hole? Heck, Hawkins radiation means black holes can evaporate. Does that correspond to a universa collapsing? Would matter falling into our black hole come shooting out of the white-hole we see? Would time on either side of the event horizon even be related?

Perhaps dark energy is hawking radiation. We just see what it's like from the inside.

Something to consider is a possible time scale difference. Eg time could be dilated for us for being around so much density.

Re: Is our universe trapped inside a black hole? This JWS Telescope discovery

#19

Post by Aerroon »

nextaccountic wrote: post #17
m3kw9 wrote: post #2

Ok but then the theory of black holes are wrong because this isn’t dense at all.

Only the infinitesimally small singularity that is in the future of all objects inside the event horizon is supposed to be very dense. The space inside the event horizon is supposed to be normal-ish

If such a singularity exists at all. The thing we "observe" about black holes is the event horizon. It could be that space inside a black hole is just regular space.

Re: Is our universe trapped inside a black hole? This JWS Telescope discovery

#20

Post by Aerroon »

alabastervlog wrote: post #10
jagged-chisel wrote: post #3

> These [baby] universes would be unobservable to us because they are also behind an event horizon, a one-way light-trapping point of no return from which light cannot escape, meaning information can never travel from the interior of a black hole to an external observer. Also meaning that “our” blackhole (the one containing us) is unobservable from the parent universe for the same reason. So where is all this extra l…

I figure our whole universe so far has existed in the first nanosecond (or whatever) after the creation of the black hole in the parent universe, so very little energy or light has had time to enter. By one or two seconds in the parent universe’s time scale, our universe will have settled down to its extremely long state of being a cold, dark void of slowly decomposing subatomic particles. No good reason to think thi…

Scales are a very interesting thing to think about. There's a theory that the universe didn't really 'start' with the big bang, that it was always there, but at a different scale. The big bang was essentially an increase in the scale of the universe, possibly in terms of time and space.
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