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Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

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Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#71

Post by lxgr »

diego_sandoval wrote: post #67
kelnos wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defaults matter. While I've gotten some of my friends and family members to install and use Signal, I still have more chats via SMS/MMS (and more recently RCS, since Apple finally started supporting it) than I do on all other messaging apps combined.

Where (and why) is that? I'm from Chile, and the last time I sent an SMS (or heard of anyone sending an SMS) must have been like 12 years ago. Ever since then, everyone has used Whatsapp or Telegram instead.

Probably the US. SMS, MMS, and now RCS are still ubiquitous there – and only there, as far as I know.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#72

Post by wtallis »

the-rc wrote: post #20
chneu wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GVoice gets forgotten about, I swear. There are years between updates and then suddenly for like 6 months it'll get a slew of updates, most of which aren't user-facing. Then back to update silence. It's really odd. I'm still amazed that google hasn't killed it.

I always wondered if it's still alive only because Larry or Sergey use it every day.

I think it only survives because it's so thoroughly overlooked. Probably nobody working on a new messaging/chat/VoIP/video conference/etc. platform within Google wants to nominate Google Voice as the thing they're replacing or reinventing.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#73

Post by lxgr »

wkat4242 wrote: post #51
alwayslikethis wrote: post #36

Unfortunately, RCS on Android requires google apps, so this isn't really a solution to anyone who doesn't want to be tracked by Google everywhere they go. I'm still a little confused as to what problem RCS is supposed to solve. It is just as centralized as any other chat app, and is a bit more invasive (often requiring device attestation). Is it really worth all this hassle just to not have to install, let's say, Sig…

It also requires a Google account as far as I know. I have Google apps but no account signed in. And when I tap on the connect RCS option it asks me to sign in. Anyway iMessage (and iOS for that matter) is irrelevant where I live so I don't expect this to change anything. I'm not going to be on RCS. The main apps here are WhatsApp and Telegram (the latter more for groups)

It shouldn't. The only reason Google Messages sometimes asks for an account is to support remote access via messages.google.com without scanning a QR code, as far as I know.

While it's largely openness/federation theater (Google runs most servers in the background, either on behalf of or instead of the mobile networks), they at least got that part right (as in conforming to the specification, not as in doing the long-term right thing for users) and exclusively use the phone number as an identifier.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#74

Post by lxgr »

mrweasel wrote: post #8

Why was RCS even designed with a none encrypted mode? I get that the original spec isn't exactly new, but it's also not so old that encryption, security or privacy wasn't an issue.

Phone calls aren't encrypted either, if you think about it [1]. There's a large expectation of the telecommunications industry to be able to perform legal interception, and providing end-to-end encryption out of the box might be seen as a direct violation of that requirement.

[1] Except, somewhat incongruently, between Google Fi subscribers on some Android phones: https://support.google.com/fi/answer/11295314?hl=en – no idea how that came to be and how it even works! I suspect it just upgrades to a FaceTime-like VoIP call.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#75

Post by lxgr »

hagbard_c wrote: post #24
nubinetwork wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure about the case of RCS, but I've seen some instances of a none cipher being better for compression and deduplication, because the encryption messes with the data.

You'd normally compress the data before encrypting it as that makes the resulting cyphertext more resilient against cryptanalysis as well as reduces the amount of data which needs to be encrypted so this sounds like a bogus reason.

That doesn't allow you to deduplicate across users, though – which of course is the entire point, or the network would be able to see who's forwarding which documents.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#77

Post by lxgr »

scarface_74 wrote: post #54
codedokode wrote: post #11

It is good that commercial messengers forced GSM association to finally create E2EE standards. The reason why telcos want you to use RCS becomes obvious if you calculate how much 1Gb of data costs if sent as SMS (I guess that one could buy a car with this money).

Does any carrier still charge for SMS messages?

I'd say it's the norm rather than the exception outside of the US.

US operators do things quite a bit differently from the rest of the world; for example, prepaid cards without a monthly fee are not really a thing, i.e. essentially every plan has a monthly fee, but that then almost always includes texting.

Outside the US, it's usually possible to receive calls and SMS on a prepaid SIM without paying anything other than maybe the occasional top-up to not lose the number; in exchange, outbound texts and calls are usually paid.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#78

Post by lxgr »

vitorgrs wrote: post #56

Well... they also need to expand to more than just a few countries. Here in Brazil there's no iPhone RCS support at all.

It's up to the mobile networks to support that (usually by outsourcing it to Google, which I'm not sure they do for free).

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#79

Post by lxgr »

acdha wrote: post #33
criddell wrote: post #3

When an iPhone sends a message to 555-1212, where does the iPhone get the public key for that number?

Apple runs servers for managing iMessage key exchange, just like Google’s RCS encryption. Both of them use device attestation to restrict access to those servers to their own apps.

iMessage has nothing to do with RCS, though. I'm also curious how key exchanges will work across operating systems on the latter.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#80

Post by lxgr »

bebna wrote: post #23
WorldPeas wrote: post #22

Any news on if/when one will be able to send RCS from a program or device outside the monolith?

Never. It is just a fancy MMS in new disguise. Carriers / patent holders will hold to it forever while praising it as the new best thing.

I believe even then only US carriers (the rest of the world has moved on from P2P SMS, and only businesses are really still sending them for SMS-OTP and marketing), and of course Google, as the only party actually invested in it (via their acquisition of Jibe [1]).

[1] https://jibe.google.com/

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