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Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

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Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#351

I have been boycotting samsung since ~2014; because of my experience with two, brand new, ~$1000 samsung devices, neither a phone. Their customer service blew me off, because both devices had intermittent issues. I tell people to avoid the company and its products. both devices were malfunctioning within the first month. 1) 4k60 32" monitor, the power button always flaked and it would randomly shut off, thus necessit…

Sometimes you have to hack their support script to get a replacement or a refund. After the first support call if you don't get what you want and it happened again, Call back to open a new support ticket. Pretend to walk through their steps but not do anything, and when they asked what was on the screen I would say it's blank and not turning on.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#352
post #39

My Samsung TV got more and more unusable with every update. Over the years, saved apps, like Youtube, started to disappear every time it woke up. Then it would default to their Samsung TV app, rather than your last app. Samsung TV app happened to be on the Baywatch channel every time my young children started the stupid thing. Finally, after it took 2 minutes to load the youtube app, I factory-reset the device, disco…

Contrary to lots of other opinions here, I bought a 65" Samsung TV at the beginning of covid and I sincerely don't have any significant complaints. The remote is easy to use, launching apps is straightforward, connecting an ARC soundbar was no problem, nor was connecting a Chromecast and an Xbox, and it "just works". Every once in a blue moon (maybe twice a year-ish) I've had to power cycle it to fix a wifi connectivity issue, which may well just be a result of DHCP lease expiration on my network.

I have a modern Sony Bravia, too, which is running "Google TV" natively. On the plus side, the UI is just about identical to what you get with a Google TV dongle (which I also have, plugged into an old 32" monitor in front of my bike trainer), but it's also a really heavy interface that's also increasingly rich in ads. If your household is like mine, and holds subscriptions to a half dozen or more streaming services, some of which are bundled and some of which are either discounted or comped via entirely different subscriptions (mobile phone) or membership (credit card), it's really not helpful to have Google show me subscriptions I might want to add-on to my Google TV sub, nor do I appreciate seeing ads for content from things I don't subscribe to. Also, the Sony remote has about 50 buttons -- not a fan.

All things considered, I end up having to fiddle with the Sony TV far more frequently than the Samsung one, usually because of network or app issues.

We have an old Roku stick plugged into an old tv in a spare room, too, and it's almost intolerably slow. It's primary use case is to plug into our projector for backyard movies in nice weather, so I keep it around, but man is it dog slow.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#353

Perhaps a stupid question, but why they don’t test the firmware updates internally before releasing them?

They almost certainly do, but there's always ways that the test jig differs from the units in the field, for example:

- The test jig is probably pristine, so no hundreds of hours of telemetry data clogging up the internal storage.

- The test jig might be on ethernet whereas a lot of users would be using wifi.

- The test jig probably targets specific A -> B upgrades rather than testing progressive upgrade across every version that's ever existed.

- The test jig can't cover every permutation of config options.

- The test jig probably only does a bare minimal smoke test after the install, so if the problem takes a bit to kick in, it might not show up.

Not to say that it's certainly any of these, but all are possible contributors. In the coming days it'll become clearer what particular pattern the affected devices follows, and/or clever people with JTAG dongles will reverse engineer the problem and spill the beans.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#355

Two important features I insist on for products I develop: 1. Staged rollout of firmware updates. It’s common practice for apps and software but for some reason it’s less common with firmware. Rolling out to 1% (or less, depending on scale) of devices and waiting a day is cheap insurance. Side note: Build a good relationship with customer service people so you hear about these things immediately. 2. A failsafe firmwa…

Most companies don't do this because it's not one of their organizational priorities to have reliable updates. The infrastructure is usually custom built and maintained by a couple of folks who have a dozen other responsibilities they're told are more important. Testing is usually limited by hardware availability and release velocity. "One of every board revision we've ever produced" simply isn't available and waitin…

I'm working on embedded systems and I've seen and heard some horror stories just on the device's side. Piles and piles of pre- and post-reboot shell scripts filled with race conditions against the system's services and themselves. When these break, if you're lucky a factory reset is enough to fix the system, if you're unlucky they become field bricks.

I'm trying to buck the trend though and on the new embedded system I'm working on, I've specifically designed the upgrade system to be as reliable as I can make it. It goes something like this:

- The new firmware is downloaded to the secondary application slot.

- Just prior to rebooting, the entire state data of the system is serialized as a document and stored on a flash partition.

- The upgrade flag is set, the system reboots and MCUboot does its thing.

- The new firmware finds out a upgrade happened, clears out all the data partitions, restores from the document and then clears out its partition.

The system is basically sanitized and restored after each upgrade. It's also the same codepath that handles saving and restoring the system's configuration by the end-user as well as settings management. If the document schema is for an older version, run the N-to-N+1 schema upgraders on it prior to applying instead of trying to patch the system in-place. If something goes horribly wrong, flip a jumper to trigger the heavy-duty sanitization that nukes the entire external flash (internal flash only contains the bootloader, primary application slot and factory parameters so it's essentially read-only once the application boots).

It might be hubris, but I hope it's good enough that I'll never see a bricked card that can't be resurrected by a factory reset with this project (assuming no hardware damage, no internal flash corruption and no bricking firmware getting signed with production keys seeping through the cracks despite all the checks in place).

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#356

Perhaps a stupid question, but why they don’t test the firmware updates internally before releasing them?

Today a tech lead with admin role on GH opened a PR, approved it for himself and merged it, because he could override GH rules. The PR had failing unit tests. It went straight to prod and caused 20 minutes downtime of one functionality. We do test things, sometimes you're just not prepared for all the permutations of the idiocy out there...

This is more common than you think. Only a few days HP update bricked their printers https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/03/firmware-update-bric...

Similar thing happened to Hisense https://old.reddit.com/r/Hisense/comments/18xnmz9/the_latest...

Samsung phones: https://www.androidcentral.com/phones/galaxy-s10-phones-smar...

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely this. The frustration when I turn on the Steam Deck and the Apple TV goes "Look at me. Look at me! I'm the output now"

Yup, game consoles are ground zero for this. I hit the button on the PS5 controller only to have the receiver and TV power on, then the PS4 wakes up for some reason and then switches the AVR to its input. My Sony UHD player also seems to want to grab the input sometimes too, so maybe it's Sony that's the source of the problems haha. And again, it's all just so maddening because it feels like it would go away if I cou…

> And again, it's all just so maddening because it feels like it would go away if I could be like "Hey, AVR should never send power-on messages to its input devices."

Yeah, that sounds a weird "feature" in the first place.

If I manually turn on the UHD player/Chromecast/PS5/whatever, it makes sense that the TV also turns on and switches to the respective input.

I could also sort of imagine that if I switched the TV to some input source, it might be convenient if the device connected to that input turns on. (Not by a lot, though. You need the device's remote/gamepad/whatever anyway to tell it what to do, so the one button press saved doesn't really buy you much.)

But what makes no sense for me is the TV turning on all input devices when it's being turned on itself. When would you ever want to have the PS4, the PS5 and the HD player running, let alone as the default behavior?

That sounds like a genuine bug in the TV.

(Also, you sound as if you have some sort of "2 n" setup with n input and 2 output devices. I have no idea how CEC would even be supposed to behave in such a setup. Would an input device turn on both output devices?

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#358
post #20

If the damage is actually as bad as it sounds, Samsung is probably talking with their lawyers and is being instructed to maintain radio silence so as to better prepare for the class-action lawsuit.

Wouldn’t radio silence increase damages to customers and result in increased liability?

As soon as there is any hint of a lawsuit, it immediately switches to CYA mode: "don't apologize, don't admit guilt, keep PR on a tight leash with a legal team watching every word and punctuation".

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#359
post #356

Perhaps a stupid question, but why they don’t test the firmware updates internally before releasing them?

Today a tech lead with admin role on GH opened a PR, approved it for himself and merged it, because he could override GH rules. The PR had failing unit tests. It went straight to prod and caused 20 minutes downtime of one functionality. We do test things, sometimes you're just not prepared for all the permutations of the idiocy out there... This is more common than you think. Only a few days HP update bricked their p…

The answer seems to be that things get tested, but the results often get ignored.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#360
Someone on reddit [0] mentioned that they updated their device via USB and hadn't encountered any issues. If that's true, then it might actually have been the previous firmware update that silently bricked the device. Or maybe Samsung only test in a controlled lab environment without real world signal interference.

In any case, it's mind boggling how a multi billion dollar company lacks proper rollout strategies.

I have a pair of Sony WH-1000XM4 headphones, and their app constantly tells me to install the latest firmware update. After the 20th time I finally agreed - only to be met with the update instructions: I must perform the update in a place with no other bluetooth or wifi devices.

Where on earth would I even have to go to find a place without there being any 2.4Ghz signal interference?

I've never been more careful when pressing “Cancel,” making sure I don't accidentally tap “Agree and Continue”.

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/Soundbars/comments/1jb1ymp/comment/...

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