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Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

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Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#261

Post by ashirviskas »

gruturo wrote: post #80
grishka wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a speaker system. It plays sound. Why could it possibly have AI, tracking, or ad delivery?

> It's a speaker system. It plays sound. Why could it possibly have AI, tracking, or ad delivery? To recognize what you listen to, build a profile, feed it back to Samsung, which will use it in deciding what crap to display on your Samsung TV (and any other devices) associated to the same profile. For all we know it's even listening to your conversation in the room, I mean, it's Samsung - they literally do this: http…

Come on, did you read more than just the headlines?

> Samsung's spokeswoman continued: " Should consumers enable the voice recognition capability, the voice data consists of TV commands, or search sentences, only. Users can easily recognize if the voice recognition feature is activated because a microphone icon appears on the screen."

So it is not like it was listening without your knowledge. Only when you use the voice features is the data being sent over. Like with every other online service. As much as I don't like samsung, this is a bullshit reason to hate them.

And why provide two links basically saying the same about the same story?

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#262

Post by jajuuka »

0x457 wrote: post #192
basch wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe a new codec? New streaming app support? New wireless protocol? CEC bugfix?

Yes, all of those are in the realm of possibilities, but has it ever been the norm? In my experience, products like this are only get updates when the company finds a way to extract more money: - add more ads - add more ads that pretend not to be ads - to remove functionality, so it won't cannibalize sales of more expensive product

I actually picked up a Samsung soundbar for my mom this past Christmas and there were quite a few negative reviews. Usually around the soundbar dropping its connection. However diving deeper on them seems to revealed that the issue was resolved with an update. It's not super smart though and needs a USB drive or phone app to update. So it has prevented this situation from happening.

Considering the soundbar connects to a TV, console, phone, etc that are constantly releasing new versions and upgrades it makes sense to build in the function to something as simple as a soundbar to fix bugs and compatibility issues.

Samsung doesn't have the greatest track record with updates though so obviously you don't want to jump the gun on these. Hopefully not a Galaxy Watch 4 situation where they need to be mailed to Samsung to be reset because they didn't think about this during the design phase.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#263

Post by pqtyw »

Loudergood wrote: post #185
mschuster91 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem usually aren't vendors. The problem usually are rightsholders - the movie/TV series industry still didn't get the Spotify memo, and the console game industry... well it's hard to say they don't have a point insisting on serious DRM given how rampant piracy becomes once there's an easy-enough root method available.

The massive success of Steam points otherwise.

In what way? Console makers wouldn't gain anything by weakening DRM and making devices rootable. It's not like they are making that much money from device sales.

Of course then you have MS which basically just turned XBox into a cheap but totally locked down gaming PC (since there are very few Xbox exclusives these days).

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#264

Post by Forgeties79 »

mikepurvis wrote: post #211
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely this. The frustration when I turn on the Steam Deck and the Apple TV goes "Look at me. Look at me! I'm the output now"

Yup, game consoles are ground zero for this. I hit the button on the PS5 controller only to have the receiver and TV power on, then the PS4 wakes up for some reason and then switches the AVR to its input. My Sony UHD player also seems to want to grab the input sometimes too, so maybe it's Sony that's the source of the problems haha. And again, it's all just so maddening because it feels like it would go away if I cou…

I turn off CEC all the time and my tv refuses to acknowledge it if I ever unhook the device or HDMI. Always defaults back. Drives me crazy.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#265

Post by lurking_swe »

rd11235 wrote: post #217

Good motivation for a PSA: This happens more and more often, and there is a fairly easy + popular workaround (which also comes with 99% ad blocking as a bonus). Just either set up pi-hole locally OR use a hosted DNS service that does essentially the same thing. Main idea: Ads, updates, etc. typically (not always) need to resolve hosts before connecting to servers. Simply resolve these hosts to 0.0.0.0 instead of a re…

why connect the junk to the internet to begin with? it’s a TV. I can buy a better streaming box and plug it in. People really over complicate things sometimes IMO.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#266

Post by neilv »

tomstokes wrote: post #18

Two important features I insist on for products I develop: 1. Staged rollout of firmware updates. It’s common practice for apps and software but for some reason it’s less common with firmware. Rolling out to 1% (or less, depending on scale) of devices and waiting a day is cheap insurance. Side note: Build a good relationship with customer service people so you hear about these things immediately. 2. A failsafe firmwa…

For this $1500 street price soundbar, I'm wondering whether they consciously decided not to invest in BOM cost or software effort that would help avoid bricking.

I'm not sure I understand various industries' conventions...

While interviewing for a principal engineer job, I was meeting individually with a bunch of team leads and managers, and one engineer asked how would I design firmware updating for the company's product (which was more critical, complex, and expensive than a soundbar).

I assumed they were probably trying to see whether I would throw in some robustness/resilience (not oversimplify it). So I sketched it out, while hitting notes like diffs, downloading and assembling in staging space, imperfect networking, having at least two firmware "slots", backing out upon boot loop or failure soon after boot, gradual deployment to installed base, contrasting with some less-critical consumer product firmware update practices, etc.

(Either that was a bad answer, or they got distracted thinking about something I'd said, because I was getting odd subconscious backchannel cues, and they were unresponsive when I tried elicit more requirements or guidance about what they were looking for. Maybe there was some standard embedded systems programmer canned answer that I was supposed to recite (analogous to the Web brogrammer 'system design' interview), and they couldn't think of how to nudge me towards the shibboleth without saying it?)

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#267

Post by aerostable_slug »

ryandrake wrote: post #207
ChuckMcM wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't get enough attention, waaaay too many of these issues are traced back to the vendor trying to "prevent" someone from using their product in a way that they don't like.

Exactly. If your company's threat model considers its own customers as attackers, you're the baddies.

Not always. There's a time and a place for including end users in your threat model. These would include scholastic and carceral settings, where in both cases the end user may, as an example, desire access to resources that have been deemed inappropriate.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#268

Post by palata »

koolba wrote: post #136
ChuckMcM wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't get enough attention, waaaay too many of these issues are traced back to the vendor trying to "prevent" someone from using their product in a way that they don't like.

Why else would a soundbar need updates anyway? It either performs its well defined functions when you bought it or they sold you a device that doesn’t input/output sound. Updates for these types of things always fall into three categories. Either they’re gimping some unanticipated usage, they’re trying to insert ads, or they’re trying to gather more usage data.

> Why else would a soundbar need updates anyway?

Because for free you only get the first 15 levels of volume. If you want to get to 25, you need to pay a subscription.

I thought it was obvious... how does the seat heating work in your car? /s

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#269

Post by hirako2000 »

Ma8ee wrote: post #237
godelski wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why else would a soundbar need updates anyway? No matter the device, software rots. Not because the device changes, not because the software changes, but because the world does

And the obvious solution is to isolate the device from the world. Most of my stereo is isolated from “the world”, and some parts are close to 30 years old. Why does a soundbar need contact with the internet?

Modern soundbar are bugged Bluetooth enabled, also with ship with interfacing protocols, while legacy bluetooth/wifi drivers are ok, protocols just break

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#270

Post by echoangle »

pc86 wrote: post #254
ymyms wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, my background is in B2B hardware and that's the perspective I am coming here with. Out of curiosity though, how do you weigh your value of control vs. security vulnerabilities? Modern speaker systems allow some form of wireless connectivity, so there is bound to be something and not all consumers will be savvy enough to keep up with security updates on their own.

There will always be security issues, so "but security" is not a reason to prevent a consumer from doing whatever they want with a thing that they purchased from you (I'm of course just speaking morally/ethically here since there's no legal provisions preventing that in most places). If I pay you for a product, you have no moral right to tell me what I can and cannot do with that product, up to and including messing…

I think I agree with you generalle but just from a logics perspective, this is a bad argument:

> There will always be security issues, so "but security" is not a reason to prevent a consumer from doing whatever they want with a thing that they purchased from you

Just because there will always be security issues doesn't mean you shouldn't try to take care of the low hanging fruit.

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