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Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

us.community.samsung.com

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Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#241

Post by xp84 »

JimDabell wrote: post #142
tomstokes wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reverting to factory state seems riskier than last known good state. Reverting to factory state is the last resort. You don't have users do it unless there is no other good state to return to on the device. > Just because that version worked a decade ago, it doesn’t mean it’s compatible with the world today. That's why I said you have to include this in your test procedures. When you're planning for the long term y…

> > Just because that version worked a decade ago, it doesn’t mean it’s compatible with the world today. > That's why I said you have to include this in your test procedures. You can’t test the world . Even if your servers can correctly respond to requests from old software, it doesn’t mean that the network between you will too.

Networking surely does introduce complications especially when TLS is now basically considered required and cert lifetimes are being limited for 'security' reasons. However most consumer devices have functionality, often their primary/most important function, to which network connectivity isn't even needed. For instance, a speaker producing sounds.

In the factory reset state, things should have a USB flash drive firmware install route which could be used to bring back working root certs, etc.

Of course again this depends on whether the mfg is worried about DRM bypass hacks that are found later on in the factory firmware.

I'd support legislation to issue stiff fines for devices that can't be factory reset at any time, with the only exception being for directly-consumer-benefitting anti-theft (so, iCloud lock is okay).

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#242

Post by genewitch »

grishka wrote: post #189
ww520 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Broadcast high frequency tunes in the background for other devices to pick up to identify you.

Dogs hate this one simple trick

on android you can install SoniControl Firewall to "see" the ultrasonics in your house. Try it with all tvs and things off, then try it with the TV on, youtube videos, and so on.

Pixel tracking works better if the TV is connected to the internet. I remember samsung as one of the companies, where, if your TV was not ever given a wifi connection, it would attempt to connect to any open network to do what it needed to do. This sounds unlawful, so i don't know the veracity, but anyhow - if the TV is online, it can just send a half dozen pixels at known locations back home and there is a database of "content pixels at timestamps" and they match the half dozen pixel values to the database and know what you're watching to some degree of certitude.

but for things like dumb panels older TVs and the like, ultrasonics still work.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#244

Post by efitz »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #94
tomstokes wrote: post #18

Two important features I insist on for products I develop: 1. Staged rollout of firmware updates. It’s common practice for apps and software but for some reason it’s less common with firmware. Rolling out to 1% (or less, depending on scale) of devices and waiting a day is cheap insurance. Side note: Build a good relationship with customer service people so you hear about these things immediately. 2. A failsafe firmwa…

> A failsafe firmware reset back to factory state. This doesn't work if your threat model includes denying rollbacks to prevent exploiting bugs in old firmware. I'd love to be able to roll-back firmware on some of my devices to allow me to "jailbreak" them using old firmware. In some cases your newer firmware may be blowing e-fuses that prevent old firmware from functioning. See the Nintendo Switch, for an example. T…

Sometimes they do it because it’s contractually required if they want to get access to proprietary standards, for example to allow them to play copy-protected content.

Copyright and patent have morphed into evils that drive anti-consumer and anti-competitive behavior, and have driven a “subscription” model that allows rent seekers to achieve their wildest dreams.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#245

Post by Tijdreiziger »

devmor wrote: post #40
tomstokes wrote: post #18

Two important features I insist on for products I develop: 1. Staged rollout of firmware updates. It’s common practice for apps and software but for some reason it’s less common with firmware. Rolling out to 1% (or less, depending on scale) of devices and waiting a day is cheap insurance. Side note: Build a good relationship with customer service people so you hear about these things immediately. 2. A failsafe firmwa…

#2 has been a godsend in the custom/HEDT PC market. Many expensive motherboards now come with a "dual BIOS" system that gives you an older known working image to boot from, in case flashing a new version broke something that can't be easily undone.

HEDT = High-End DeskTop, which (until 2022) referred to CPUs with more cores and separate sockets compared to ‘normal’ consumer CPUs, apparently.

https://tweakers.net/reviews/10334/het-einde-van-de-high-end... (Dutch)

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#246

Post by radicality »

JimDabell wrote: post #142
tomstokes wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reverting to factory state seems riskier than last known good state. Reverting to factory state is the last resort. You don't have users do it unless there is no other good state to return to on the device. > Just because that version worked a decade ago, it doesn’t mean it’s compatible with the world today. That's why I said you have to include this in your test procedures. When you're planning for the long term y…

> > Just because that version worked a decade ago, it doesn’t mean it’s compatible with the world today. > That's why I said you have to include this in your test procedures. You can’t test the world . Even if your servers can correctly respond to requests from old software, it doesn’t mean that the network between you will too.

But can’t you? Sure, factory firmware from many years ago might have issues, but should still work well enough to allow you to fully offline upgrade to a newer working version.

I think all the OP was saying, is: Suppose you’re releasing firmware version N for some widget you make. Now, for all versions V in (0..N-1), verify that applying N to V works correctly.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#247

Post by timewizard »

nemomarx wrote: post #37
grishka wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a speaker system. It plays sound. Why could it possibly have AI, tracking, or ad delivery?

Insert ads into the music the customer is playing, using AI to find pauses, and track what songs they're playing for data gathering?

> using AI to find pauses,

You can just use regular math to do this. We've been doing it for 30 years now. You don't need a trumped up overpriced garbage LLM to do anything for you here.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#248

Post by dmos62 »

krunck wrote: post #209

I hate smart TVs. Why put all the functionality in one device when a small part of it is going to become obsolete real soon while the TV part will continue to work for a decade or more. I buy dumb TVs and a separate "smart" component like Roku that can be replaced as easily as a shoelace.

Do you find dumb TV software (dynamic backlight controls for example) and hardware on par with smart tvs?

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#249

Post by genewitch »

Lanolderen wrote: post #177
thiagobbt wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They usually already have mics to do automatic EQ calibration

Didn't know that, thanks. Then speakers are actually a pretty big data source. I bet most people don't assume their speakers can be listening. I wonder if you can get internet connection over bluetooth aux or what'd be the best way to get someone to let you send data home on a speaker.

i did some cursory digging, but i don't really want to read the A2DP or AVRCP specifications to see how much data is allowed in the non-audio payload. Besides, PAN exists, but i imagine you have to do something on your phone to allow it.

Most of these expensive things also have wifi, though, don't they?

> Connect your devices and control everything with our soundbar that integrates your favorite voice assistants and smart services like Built-in Alexa², Chromecast³, Airplay 2⁴ and more.

> 802.11ac

https://www.samsung.com/us/televisions-home-theater/home-the...

yeah, they have wifi, so they don't even need bluetooth hacks.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#250

Post by water9 »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #94
tomstokes wrote: post #18

Two important features I insist on for products I develop: 1. Staged rollout of firmware updates. It’s common practice for apps and software but for some reason it’s less common with firmware. Rolling out to 1% (or less, depending on scale) of devices and waiting a day is cheap insurance. Side note: Build a good relationship with customer service people so you hear about these things immediately. 2. A failsafe firmwa…

> A failsafe firmware reset back to factory state. This doesn't work if your threat model includes denying rollbacks to prevent exploiting bugs in old firmware. I'd love to be able to roll-back firmware on some of my devices to allow me to "jailbreak" them using old firmware. In some cases your newer firmware may be blowing e-fuses that prevent old firmware from functioning. See the Nintendo Switch, for an example. T…

Blowing efuses is a destructive action and it should not be legal for a company to destroy parts of your electronic device that you paid for
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