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Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

us.community.samsung.com

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Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#221

Post by jakeydus »

gamblor956 wrote: post #103
vosper wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I will gladly pay more for a TV that doesn't try to advertise Roku's streaming service to me or track my kids' watch history. Seems like they are few and far between, though. Plug in an Apple TV?

Apple TV is just as bad (and in the context of the OP's statement, would be the same as a Roku box or an Amazon Firetv).

Yeah, we do use Apple TV because at the very least if they are collecting our data, they're not using it to advertise directly to us on the same device. My parents have a Roku TV and the number of ads it serves up directly on the device leave me feeling nauseous.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#222

Post by isoprophlex »

reverendsteveii wrote: post #97

Do you guys miss owning things and they were just...yours? Like, you paid money for them and then you had them and you had full control over them and someone half a world away wasn't able to reach into your house and break them or make them do evil things?

You will own nothing, you will have no privacy, and you will be happy.

(Or not, of course...)

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#223

Post by ryandrake »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #139
tomstokes wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to have the firmware equivalent of a platform team. It's common now for medium and large companies to have some variant of a cloud platform team: People responsible for shared practices, infrastructure, and processes in the cloud. Smart hardware companies have done the same for decades. You have a firmware platform team that handles things like update protocols, recovery protocols, testing checklists, on-dev…

Samsung has multiple such teams. In my experience with the broader industry, platform teams are usually less than a dozen people who own millions of lines of mostly-external code. You don't usually get the luxury of careful deliberation and comprehensive testing because you're doing too busy putting out fires and chasing down manufacturer errata.

Samsung might be one of the good ones, but sadly most hardware manufacturers treat firmware and software like just another line item on the BOM. Like a screw or a silicon gasket: Source it from some "supplier," spoon it into the product somewhere on the assembly line, and then never touch it again. I've seen a hardware manufacturer that doesn't even use source control or branching. When they have a new hardware product, they take the software that is closest in functionality, hack it until it works with the new hardware, and then set the software back on the shelf until next time.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#224

Post by ftufek »

drlobster wrote: post #145

They did this before, about five years ago. I had to send it back to them for a fix and it came back a few weeks later. https://hackaday.com/2020/07/19/the-real-story-how-samsung-b...

Yeah, some people say they got replacements through the warranty. The problem is, this thing is really big and heavy, so boxing it up is a real pain, especially if you've had it a while and already threw out the original box.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#225

Post by ryandrake »

bobdvb wrote: post #164
napolux wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a similar experience with my high-end Samsung TV from 2013. The TV itself still works perfectly so I'm not replacing it soon (still 1080p, not 4K, but...), but over time, Samsung has steadily removed key features with each update. When I first bought it, it supported Skype video calls (and now the integrated webcam can't be used at all), IPTV streaming, and various third-party apps — all of which are now gone.…

Microsoft removed support for Skype on TV, not Samsung. Most apps get removed because the people writing them don't want to support them anymore. The Samsung framework from 2013 was always trouble and it doesn't support many current W3C features that you'd want as a developer. Most people I know are drawing the line at supporting 2014 or 2016 Samsung devices. Could Samsung update their devices to ensure they still su…

I hate this idea that software "rots" all by itself when it's just left on a device and is impossible to keep working. I would at the very, very least expect my device to work exactly as it did on day one, for the next 50 years, assuming I don't change the software. It's bits on a flash drive! It doesn't rot, outside some freak cosmic ray from space flipping a bit.

If you're saying the software stops working because the backend it talks to goes away, well that's a deliberate choice the company is making. All they have to do is have a proper versioning system and do not touch the backend service, and it also should work forever.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#226

Post by weinzierl »

tomstokes wrote: post #18

Two important features I insist on for products I develop: 1. Staged rollout of firmware updates. It’s common practice for apps and software but for some reason it’s less common with firmware. Rolling out to 1% (or less, depending on scale) of devices and waiting a day is cheap insurance. Side note: Build a good relationship with customer service people so you hear about these things immediately. 2. A failsafe firmwa…

> "A failsafe firmware reset back to factory state"

A failsafe firmware reset back to a safe and secure state yes. The factory state is not necessarily that, so no.

I think devices should keep a last known good state firmware but keeping a full factory state immutable firmware would be irresponsible for many usecases.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#227

Post by Tijdreiziger »

Galxeagle wrote: post #108
tomstokes wrote: post #18

Two important features I insist on for products I develop: 1. Staged rollout of firmware updates. It’s common practice for apps and software but for some reason it’s less common with firmware. Rolling out to 1% (or less, depending on scale) of devices and waiting a day is cheap insurance. Side note: Build a good relationship with customer service people so you hear about these things immediately. 2. A failsafe firmwa…

I get the sense that #2 is viewed as a risk for DRM, given all the work that goes into preventing firmware downgrades to potentially insecure firmware. Specifically thinking of the Nintendo Switch[1] that goes so far as to blow fuses on each firmware upgrade! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23534793

eFuses were already on the Xbox 360/PS3 generation. Smartphones also use them to lock out proprietary photography algorithms if you unlock the bootloader.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFuse

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#228

Post by reverendsteveii »

jimt1234 wrote: post #116
reverendsteveii wrote: post #97

Do you guys miss owning things and they were just...yours? Like, you paid money for them and then you had them and you had full control over them and someone half a world away wasn't able to reach into your house and break them or make them do evil things?

I drive a 30-year-old Nissan pickup truck for this exact reason. Not sure why, but I get a small sense of joy knowing that the corporate overlords aren't "watching" me drive. Of course they're "watching" me on my phone (as I drive the beater truck), but that's a different story.

my headphones just popped up an alert on my phone that turned out to be an ad for a nascar race. that got their app uninstalled. if they ever realize that they can start shoving ads directly into my ears that's when the headphones themselves get taken out back and smashed with a hammer.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#229

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

mmanfrin wrote: post #36
marcodiego wrote: post #22

Should be codified by law: - If a firmware can be updated, it must keep a minimum ROM feature so it can be recovered. - No device should be updated without the *owner* explicit intention to do so. - Full docs must be released if the vendor stops supporting it.

> - No device should be updated without the owner explicit intention to do so. Ahh! But you are just leasing the software!! Samsung is technically the owner!!

If it's a lease maybe it should cost money, nobody would buy these stupid pieces of shit if they all had $1 / year peppercorns attached

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#230

Post by inetknght »

rd11235 wrote: post #217

Good motivation for a PSA: This happens more and more often, and there is a fairly easy + popular workaround (which also comes with 99% ad blocking as a bonus). Just either set up pi-hole locally OR use a hosted DNS service that does essentially the same thing. Main idea: Ads, updates, etc. typically (not always) need to resolve hosts before connecting to servers. Simply resolve these hosts to 0.0.0.0 instead of a re…

> Step 5: Later, you may encounter broken functionality. When this happens, look at your logs, and see which server(s) were blocked at that moment

Eventually you end up with advertisements being served because the application refuses to show the content without the advertisements.

So let me cut back to your main idea:

> Main idea: Ads, updates, etc. typically (not always) need to resolve hosts before connecting to servers. Simply resolve these hosts to 0.0.0.0 instead of a real IP.

Better solution: resolve these hosts to an address you control on your network. You could even resolve it to a "public" address and add a static route to your router.

You can then choose to serve no-content from that address.

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