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Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

us.community.samsung.com

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Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#161

Post by arcanemachiner »

onemoresoop wrote: post #121
gruturo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a speaker system. It plays sound. Why could it possibly have AI, tracking, or ad delivery? To recognize what you listen to, build a profile, feed it back to Samsung, which will use it in deciding what crap to display on your Samsung TV (and any other devices) associated to the same profile. For all we know it's even listening to your conversation in the room, I mean, it's Samsung - they literally do this: http…

How much benefit could that bring versus burning reputation and losing it all? These companies are so big and powerful but time and time again they keep on forgetting that they can't exist without the users and when users start leaving it's hard to reverse that trend.

The idea of people getting upset at their tech spying on them is almost laughable at this point.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#163

Post by mastercheif »

mschuster91 wrote: post #138
ChuckMcM wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't get enough attention, waaaay too many of these issues are traced back to the vendor trying to "prevent" someone from using their product in a way that they don't like.

The problem usually aren't vendors. The problem usually are rightsholders - the movie/TV series industry still didn't get the Spotify memo, and the console game industry... well it's hard to say they don't have a point insisting on serious DRM given how rampant piracy becomes once there's an easy-enough root method available.

This is an undersold part of the story

It's not only media companies with DRM

IoT integrations like Alexa come with numerous security requirements that are often good ideas in theory but lead to hacky workarounds to meet certification requirements

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#164

Post by bobdvb »

napolux wrote: post #59
eYrKEC2 wrote: post #39

My Samsung TV got more and more unusable with every update. Over the years, saved apps, like Youtube, started to disappear every time it woke up. Then it would default to their Samsung TV app, rather than your last app. Samsung TV app happened to be on the Baywatch channel every time my young children started the stupid thing. Finally, after it took 2 minutes to load the youtube app, I factory-reset the device, disco…

I have a similar experience with my high-end Samsung TV from 2013. The TV itself still works perfectly so I'm not replacing it soon (still 1080p, not 4K, but...), but over time, Samsung has steadily removed key features with each update. When I first bought it, it supported Skype video calls (and now the integrated webcam can't be used at all), IPTV streaming, and various third-party apps — all of which are now gone.…

Microsoft removed support for Skype on TV, not Samsung.

Most apps get removed because the people writing them don't want to support them anymore. The Samsung framework from 2013 was always trouble and it doesn't support many current W3C features that you'd want as a developer. Most people I know are drawing the line at supporting 2014 or 2016 Samsung devices.

Could Samsung update their devices to ensure they still supported modern frameworks? Possibly, but they don't really get any revenue from providing OS upgrades and those devices suck in terms of RAM and CPU.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#166

Post by Zenbit_UX »

ymyms wrote: post #110
Zenbit_UX wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO this is a terrible idea for many reasons but the most important of which is: As a consumer I should have the right to have my device revert any b.s. update and get my setup to how it was the day I bought it. So many companies have begun rolling out updates that makes the device I purchased call home before allowing any user functions and if/when that server goes down my device becomes a brick. This behavior essen…

FWIW, my background is in B2B hardware and that's the perspective I am coming here with. Out of curiosity though, how do you weigh your value of control vs. security vulnerabilities? Modern speaker systems allow some form of wireless connectivity, so there is bound to be something and not all consumers will be savvy enough to keep up with security updates on their own.

My thoughts on security vulnerabilities is that they exist on any out of date firmware and that should be expected. I’ve never rolled back to factory settings and assumed that this device is now exposable on a DMZ.

Specifically I’m talking about consumer devices, which are almost always behind a NAT config + firewall. If your soundbar has a vulnerability it’s pretty much irrelevant if someone has already breached your network.

If we’re talking about enterprise networking equipment, I still stand by my concerns that the the owner should be able to revert back to stock but the burden of responsibility is on the technician configuring this device, not the manufacturer.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#167

Post by wcfields »

onemoresoop wrote: post #121
gruturo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a speaker system. It plays sound. Why could it possibly have AI, tracking, or ad delivery? To recognize what you listen to, build a profile, feed it back to Samsung, which will use it in deciding what crap to display on your Samsung TV (and any other devices) associated to the same profile. For all we know it's even listening to your conversation in the room, I mean, it's Samsung - they literally do this: http…

How much benefit could that bring versus burning reputation and losing it all? These companies are so big and powerful but time and time again they keep on forgetting that they can't exist without the users and when users start leaving it's hard to reverse that trend.

Burning Reputation?

It's so out in the open if you know, or more likely, worked in media advertising.

Their competitor, Vizio, owns iSpot[1] which is, in my opinion, the best in the space.

Samba TV[2] is it's nearest competitor and they have their hooks into 24 Smart TV brands globally[3]. These brands are listed on their website as Philips, Sony, Toshiba, beko, Magnavox, TCL, Grundig, Sanyo, AOC, Seiki, Element, Sharp, Westinghouse, Vestel, Panasonic, Hitachi, Finlux, Telefunken, Digihome, JVC, Luxor, Techwood, and Regal.

[1] https://ispot.tv/

[2] https://www.samba.tv/

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samba_TV#Customers

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#168

Post by [deleted] »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #94
tomstokes wrote: post #18

Two important features I insist on for products I develop: 1. Staged rollout of firmware updates. It’s common practice for apps and software but for some reason it’s less common with firmware. Rolling out to 1% (or less, depending on scale) of devices and waiting a day is cheap insurance. Side note: Build a good relationship with customer service people so you hear about these things immediately. 2. A failsafe firmwa…

> A failsafe firmware reset back to factory state. This doesn't work if your threat model includes denying rollbacks to prevent exploiting bugs in old firmware. I'd love to be able to roll-back firmware on some of my devices to allow me to "jailbreak" them using old firmware. In some cases your newer firmware may be blowing e-fuses that prevent old firmware from functioning. See the Nintendo Switch, for an example. T…

[deleted]

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#169

Post by thiagobbt »

Lanolderen wrote: post #146
grishka wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a speaker system. It plays sound. Why could it possibly have AI, tracking, or ad delivery?

Use the speakers as a microphone! WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY!

They usually already have mics to do automatic EQ calibration

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#170

Post by Szpadel »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #94
tomstokes wrote: post #18

Two important features I insist on for products I develop: 1. Staged rollout of firmware updates. It’s common practice for apps and software but for some reason it’s less common with firmware. Rolling out to 1% (or less, depending on scale) of devices and waiting a day is cheap insurance. Side note: Build a good relationship with customer service people so you hear about these things immediately. 2. A failsafe firmwa…

> A failsafe firmware reset back to factory state. This doesn't work if your threat model includes denying rollbacks to prevent exploiting bugs in old firmware. I'd love to be able to roll-back firmware on some of my devices to allow me to "jailbreak" them using old firmware. In some cases your newer firmware may be blowing e-fuses that prevent old firmware from functioning. See the Nintendo Switch, for an example. T…

even with that "requirement" add special minimal recovery that can be booted with special buttons sequence by bootloader and allows some form of flashing signed firmware.

this should be especially trivial when your device have some usb ports.

you can keep all requirements of only newer or the same version of firmware to flash, with all refuse checks.

if you mess up, you can allow consumers to flash fix using regular pendrive

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