Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)

exurbe.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 338 posts

Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)

#81

Post by samspot »

"But on the negative side, stoicism’s Providential claim that everything in the universe is already perfect and that things which seem bad or unjust are secretly good underneath (a claim Christianity borrowed from Stoicism) can be used to justify the idea that the rich and powerful are meant to be rich and powerful, that the poor and downtrodden are meant to be poor and downtrodden, and that even the worst actions are actually good in an ineffable and eternal way"

I didn't understand these repeated digs at Christianity as having been borrowed from the Stoics. For one, that all bad things are actually good is not a tenet of Christianity and is not in the Bible. Perhaps some Christians taught this, but you can find a person claiming Christ who teaches absolutely anything you can think of. Such is the nature of things that are popular.

I can only assume the author is referring to this section from Romans 8:28 (NIV) "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."

If you fly through too quickly you could reach the Stoic claim, but there are a few key differences.

1. It says "God works for the good" in all things, but not that all those things are good in essence.

2. This is a promise only to those who love God, not automatically extended to all people or things.

Finally, I'll note that the entire Old Testament predates the Stoics, and is the foundation for Christian thinking about God's will and plan for the universe.

Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)

#83

Post by scantis »

broof wrote: post #52
mjburgess wrote: post #4

It's no accident that a roman emperor (tyrant, mass murderer, and courtier) is the premier famous stoic. Nor is it an accident that the next most famous case is that of British empire public schooling, british "stiff upper lip" stocisim. (EDIT: Marcus Aurelius) himself was no stoic philosopher, he merely wrote diaries to himself in his late days -- diaries he wanted burned, not published. And these were rehresals of…

I have no idea how you can read his meditations and come away with this conclusion. Where are you getting that “Your job is to pretend it matters because it matters to your followers”

After it is written out it appears to be an inherent truth.

Seems to be a practitioner of stoism, to shift ones inner outlook, non obvious takes are strong.

Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)

#84

Post by bko »

nkassis wrote: post #79
bko wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should one feel guilt about being prosperous in an unequal society? Even if you accept that it's based entirely on luck rather than merits, I don't see why you should feel guilt. A few examples of things based entirely on luck that no one really argues we should feel guilty about: Being tall Having high innate level of intelligence Athletic Physical beauty

The guilt isn't due to the simple fact of being prosperous it's more about the prioritization of self-interest over that of a win-win option that helps the broader good.

I don't follow. If you're prosperous due to no reason of your own (eg rich parents, lottery, etc), you didn't prioritize self interest

If it is self made you presumably made it by creating value for others, otherwise why would anyone pay you?

Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)

#85

Post by stuartjohnson12 »

sdsd wrote: post #53
shw1n wrote: post #47

I can’t speak for the rich and powerful (as I’m neither), nor do I subscribe to stoicism necessarily. But I do work in tech and enjoyed (and periodically re-read) Marcus Aurelius’ “Meditations” I originally read it out of curiosity, not often you get to see a leader’s supposedly unedited, personal diary. But I keep coming back because of the calming prose and (imo) useful lessons about dealing with a stressful world.…

I love Meditations but everytime I think about Aurelius I laugh so hard thinking about this random Reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoic/comments/1823mip/how_do_you_g... Here's the text: ## How do you get over the fact Marcus Aurelius wife cheated on him with a gladiator? I have been into stoicism for a while and have been using it to cope with life but learning this info has made me second guess the entire phi…

I saw a post a while ago from a guy who had read the 48 laws of power and tried to mirror the girl he liked but ended up making her think he was gay instead. Same energy.

Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)

#87

Post by surgical_fire »

bee_rider wrote: post #51

It seems to be a philosophy about being a good little productive serf and continuing to be productive while taking your powerlessness on the nose? Why would anybody in a modern free society follow this philosophy?

> Why would anybody in a modern free society follow this philosophy?

If I don't accept the absurd stupidity of others, and exercise temperance and prudence in my dealings with my fellow men, life in modern society would be nearly impossible.

As an example, this very post.

Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)

#88

Post by shw1n »

sdsd wrote: post #53
shw1n wrote: post #47

I can’t speak for the rich and powerful (as I’m neither), nor do I subscribe to stoicism necessarily. But I do work in tech and enjoyed (and periodically re-read) Marcus Aurelius’ “Meditations” I originally read it out of curiosity, not often you get to see a leader’s supposedly unedited, personal diary. But I keep coming back because of the calming prose and (imo) useful lessons about dealing with a stressful world.…

I love Meditations but everytime I think about Aurelius I laugh so hard thinking about this random Reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoic/comments/1823mip/how_do_you_g... Here's the text: ## How do you get over the fact Marcus Aurelius wife cheated on him with a gladiator? I have been into stoicism for a while and have been using it to cope with life but learning this info has made me second guess the entire phi…

lmao — reddit is undefeated

for opponents of stoicism “cuck philosophy” might be the goat of slogans

or an insane testament to the monk-like philosophy

Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)

#89

Post by bee_rider »

surgical_fire wrote: post #87
bee_rider wrote: post #51

It seems to be a philosophy about being a good little productive serf and continuing to be productive while taking your powerlessness on the nose? Why would anybody in a modern free society follow this philosophy?

> Why would anybody in a modern free society follow this philosophy? If I don't accept the absurd stupidity of others, and exercise temperance and prudence in my dealings with my fellow men, life in modern society would be nearly impossible. As an example, this very post.

> As an example, this very post.

Ah, don’t be too hard on yourself.

Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)

#90

Post by bigstrat2003 »

siliconc0w wrote: post #64

It's a philosophy that is a lot easier to adhere to when you have some amount of power or agency and your basic needs are met.

On the contrary, it's a philosophy that is perfect for the powerless and destitute. One of the most famous Stoics (Epictetus) was a slave. People have used the philosophy to help get them through stints in POW camps. It is by no means a philosophy that is primarily for those with power or agency.
Post reply on HN