All these whiney creatives who feel threatened just need to suck it up and deal with it. Even if they got their way in the US, another app in another country will just use their data without permission. All they are doing is ensuring those apps wouldnt be American.
OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules
411–420 of 845 posts
Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules
#412Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s a poor definition. The same “subsidization and directive influence” applies to all of Krugman’s Nobel-wining domestic champion, emerging market development leaders, in virtually all ‘successful’ economies. It also applies in the context of badly run, failed and failing economies. Safe to say this factor is only somewhat correlated. Broad assertions are going to be factually wrong.
That's because it's not a definition, it's simply a summary of a description of one characteristic.
So then you agree that the original post that called this "text book fascism" was wrong, as this is just one very vague, and only slightly correlated property.
This can be bad without invoking godwin's law.
Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules
#413Earlier quoted context omitted.
It still warps my brain, they’ve taken trillions of dollars of industry and made a product worth billions by stealing it. IP is practically the basis of the economy, and these models warp and obfuscate ownership of everything, like a giant reset button on who can hold knowledge. It wouldn’t be legal, or allowed if tech wasn't seen as the growth path of our economy. It’s a hell of a needle to thread and it’s unlikely…
"IP" is a very new concept in our culture and completely absent in other cultures. It was invented to prevent verbatim reprints of books, but even so, the publishing industry existed for hundreds of years before then. It's been expanded greatly in the past 50 years. Acting like copyright is some natural law of the universe that LLMs are upending simply because they can learn from written texts is silly. If you want t…
What AI companies are doing (downloading pirated music and training models) is completely unfair. It takes lot of money (everything related to music is expensive), talent and work to record a good song and what AI companies do is just grab millions of songs for free and call it "fair use". If their developers are so smart and talented why don't they simply compose and record the music by themselves?
> not only a work, but even the ideas and knowledge contained in that work
AI models reproduce existing audio tracks when asked, although in a distorted and low-quality form.
Also it will be funny to observe how US government will try to ignore violating copyright for AI while issuing ridiculous fines for torrenting a movie by ordinary citizens.
Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules
#414Earlier quoted context omitted.
sure you can, you could take a physical book, and painstakingly copy each page at a time, that is totally fair use.
Leaving aside the broader discussion... You cannot legally photocopy copy an entire book even if you own a physical copy. Internet people say you can, but there's no actual legal argument or case law to support that.
> Internet people say you can, but there's no actual legal argument or case law to support that.
Quite the opposite. The burden of proof is on you to show a single person ever, in history, who has been prosecuted for that.
If nobody in the world has ever been prosecuted for this, then that means it is either legal, or it is something else that is so effectively equivalent to "legal" that there is little point in using a different word.
If you want to take the position that, "uhhhhhhh, there is exactly 0% chance of anyone ever getting in trouble or being prosecuted for this, but I still don't think its legal, technically!"
Then I guess go ahead. But for those in the real world, those two things are almost equivalent.
Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules
#415Earlier quoted context omitted.
Congress expressly granted archival rights for digital media. If they wanted to do the same for books they could've done so. There's no law or legal precedent allowing it. Given all this "can't do it" is more probably accurate than "can do it". IANAL but it's not like the question is finely balanced on a knife's edge and could go either way.
Congress didn't explicitly disallow it either. You left that bit out. As such it comes down to interpretation of the existing law. We both clearly agree that doesn't (yet) exist. > IANAL but it's not like the question is finely balanced on a knife's edge and could go either way. I agree, but my interpretation is opposite yours. It seems fairly obvious to me that the spirit of the law permits personal copies. That als…
> Congress didn't explicitly disallow it either.
That's the whole point of copyright: only the owner of a copyright has the right to make copies. I don't see how it can be more explicit than that. It's a default-deny policy.
There is an archival exception for digital media, so obviously Congress is open to granting exceptions for backup purposes. They chose not to include physical media in this exception.
Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules
#416Earlier quoted context omitted.
I genuinely have no idea what you're trying to say.
I worry I'm just trying too hard to make it make sense, and this is a TimeCube [0] situation. The most-charitable paraphrase I can come up with it: "Bad people can't use LLMs to hide facts, hiding facts means removing source-materials. Math doesn't matter for politics which are mainly propaganda." However even that just creates contradictions: 1. If math and logic are not important for uncovering wrongdoing, why was…
OMG Thank you - hilarious. TimeCube is a legend...
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I am saying that AI can be used very beneficially to do a calculated dissection of the Truth of our Political structure as a Nation and how it truly impacts an Individual/Unit (person, family) -- and do so where we can get discernible metrics and utilize AIs understanding of the vast matrices of such inputs to provide meaningful outputs. Simple.
EDIT @MegaButts;
>>Why is this better than AI
People tend to think of AI in two disjointed categories; [AI THAT KNOWS EVERYTHING] v [AI THAT CAN EASILY SIFT THROUGH VAST EVERYTHING DATA GIVEN TO IT AND BE COMMANDED TO OUTPUT FINDINGS THAT A HUMAN COULDN'T DO ALONE]
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Which do you think I refer to?
AI is transformative (pun intended) -- in that it allows for very complex questions to be asked of our very complex civilization in a simple and EveryMan hands...
Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules
#417Earlier quoted context omitted.
I worry I'm just trying too hard to make it make sense, and this is a TimeCube [0] situation. The most-charitable paraphrase I can come up with it: "Bad people can't use LLMs to hide facts, hiding facts means removing source-materials. Math doesn't matter for politics which are mainly propaganda." However even that just creates contradictions: 1. If math and logic are not important for uncovering wrongdoing, why was…
OMG Thank you - hilarious. TimeCube is a legend... --- I am saying that AI can be used very beneficially to do a calculated dissection of the Truth of our Political structure as a Nation and how it truly impacts an Individual/Unit (person, family) -- and do so where we can get discernible metrics and utilize AIs understanding of the vast matrices of such inputs to provide meaningful outputs. Simple. EDIT @MegaButts;…
Why is AI better for this than a human? We already know AI is fundamentally biased by its training data in a way where it's actually impossible to know how/why it's biased. We also know AI makes things up all the time.
Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules
#418All these whiney creatives who feel threatened just need to suck it up and deal with it. Even if they got their way in the US, another app in another country will just use their data without permission. All they are doing is ensuring those apps wouldnt be American.
What do you mean by "deal with it?" Because to me it looks like they're dealing with it by joining in solidarity with other artists, raising awareness about how this affects them and us and lobbying for regulation they think would improve the situation.
I guess you meant they should deal with it by just letting it happen to them quietly and without a fight? Is that how you would deal with your livelihood being preventably and unnecessarily destroyed for someone else's enrichment? Maybe, but artists are not overall as cowardly as programmers.
> All they are doing is ensuring those apps wouldnt be American.
Maybe these whiny americans just need to suck it up and deal with it?
Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules
#419OpenAI (2023): Don't even bother trying to compete against us, you will not win and you will lose.
OpenAI (2025): pLeAse bAn dEEpSeEk!!11!, bAn poWerFulL oPen wEight Ai mOdeLs!!1
Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules
#420Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you compress the internet including copyrighted material and then sell access to it? At what percentage of lossy compression it becomes infringement?
> Can you compress the internet including copyrighted material and then sell access to it? Define access? If you mean sending out the compressed copy, generally no. For things people normally call compression. If you want to run a search engine, then you should be fine. > At what percentage of lossy compression it becomes infringement? It would have to be very very lossy. But some AI stuff is. For example there are i…
Commercial audio generation models were caught reproducing parts of copyrighted music in a distorted and low-quality form. This is not "learning", just "imitating".
Also, as I understand they didn't even buy the CDs with music for training; they got it somewhere else. Why do organizations that prosecute people for downloading a movie do not want to look if it is ok to make a business on illegal copies of copyrighted works?