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Ask HN: Where do seasoned devs look for short-term work?

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Re: Ask HN: Where do seasoned devs look for short-term work?

#131

Post by ranger_danger »

ghaff wrote: post #129
ranger_danger wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they are, and I don't think it's necessary (or possible) to be better than anyone else.

I assume there is some miscommunication happening in this thread but of course some people are more competent than others in a given field/role and if you disagree I'm not sure what to say.

I took "Why are you better than anyone else" to mean better than everyone else. Because the only other way I know to interpret it (as "why are you better than some other person you know nothing about and have no reference to compare to") didn't make sense to me. But maybe that's my own fault.

Re: Ask HN: Where do seasoned devs look for short-term work?

#132

Post by ghaff »

ranger_danger wrote: post #131
ghaff wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume there is some miscommunication happening in this thread but of course some people are more competent than others in a given field/role and if you disagree I'm not sure what to say.

I took "Why are you better than anyone else" to mean better than everyone else. Because the only other way I know to interpret it (as "why are you better than some other person you know nothing about and have no reference to compare to") didn't make sense to me. But maybe that's my own fault.

Of course, you're probably not better than everyone. But if you're not better than a random person it's probably a pretty miserable numbers game.

Re: Ask HN: Where do seasoned devs look for short-term work?

#133

Post by decGetAc »

doright wrote: post #127
ryandrake wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh. This is probably one of those "Thanks, I hate it!" moments. You're probably 100% right, and this is why I could never be an independent contractor. This kind of self-promotion and lead generation seems so demeaning, slimy, and shameful, and I'd probably die of embarrassment if I ever had to do it. Yet it comes so naturally to some people. It sucks that this kind of skill is required to make it on your own.

I just see it as a "mask" you put on for a specific audience that has the potential to greatly increase your prospects and then take off everywhere else. At a certain point the prospects (not going broke) override any shame you could feel. I don't think selling oneself is something that reflects on one's character given what's at stake. The important people who know who you really are will also treat that mask of you…

I mean I agree it's a mask but still feels slimy. I can get behind not going broke > overriding any shame.

But I do think that some people are better at lying to themselves that the choices are going broke or make independent contractor work by selling yourself like that.

There's the obvious route which is to just not be an independent contractor and get a 'normal' job where you still have to do some of this nauseating selling yourself but at only a few critical times and way less public.

No shame for those who want to be an independent contractor at the cost of selling yourself like that but just sharing that I can't seem to trick myself into thinking it's a go broke or make it work situation.

I think some value the independent nature of it and say it's worth the embarrassment that gp talks about. Was just sharing how it's not a go broke or make it work because well it's a bit of a luxury (because normal job is always there)

Re: Ask HN: Where do seasoned devs look for short-term work?

#134

Post by ghaff »

Nextgrid wrote: post #123
thekevan wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found when people ask this question, it's usually because they don't have a network to ask. Or, right or wrong, they just don't like the social aspect of going to their friends for work.

To be fair, there's a good argument for never mixing friends and business. You wouldn't want a project that goes wrong (which is a risk of doing business and somewhat expected and budgeted for on both sides) to jeopardize an friendship, and similarly you wouldn't want someone exploiting your friendship to get an unfair advantage in business (that they will often not reciprocate if the situation was reversed).

Well there are friends and friends and yes the categories merge. But since grad school interviews every job I've gotten has been through people I was friendly with professionally.

Re: Ask HN: Where do seasoned devs look for short-term work?

#135

Post by deadbabe »

aaronbaugher wrote: post #110
praptak wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s also hard to trust a short term dev who doesn’t really need the money. You have no leverage over them. They sort of just do as they please. On one hand I agree. On the other hand I cannot help but contrast this with how free market capitalism is advertised: free agents entering free mutually beneficial contracts at their own free will, everyone benefits. Then suddenly when the worker is actually free to leave…

There's a common belief, especially among older people -- and not just employers -- that the natural way of things is for there to be a larger number of workers competing for a smaller number of jobs, and if that ratio gets flipped, something's gone wrong. They consider it unseemly for the worker to have the upper hand, especially if it might raise prices for them.

It is the natural order because it is much harder to be an employer. You have to secure financing, you have debts to pay or the business ends. You don’t have time to get jerked around by workers who basically have nothing to lose, and can just go from job to job siphoning income with their skills.

Re: Ask HN: Where do seasoned devs look for short-term work?

#136

Post by ghaff »

anon7725 wrote: post #118
sgc wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grocery stores are experts at sales tactics throughout the store. All that fruit does not look so beautiful in the field, and virtually every store is trying to develop their 'ethos' to capture the customers with enough money to be able to care about that. There is no way to avoid selling in life. Otherwise, at the least, you will be constantly overlooked. There should be no shame in it. The shame is only when sales…

There is a trivial defeat for nearly all grocery store sales tactics: make a shopping list. Engaging with certain salespeople is an altogether different proposition. In order to buy a car, you are forced to interact with multiple odious people who have ripping you off as their sole objective. Thats what I think of when I think of a “salesperson”. See also mattress stores, wireless carrier “retention” departments, HVA…

Eh. Sure. Make a shopping list.

But also buy, within reason, stuff that's on sale, looks good, etc. Otherwise just order on-line.

Re: Ask HN: Where do seasoned devs look for short-term work?

#139

Post by FilosofumRex »

I offer two services to my clients, consulting/expertise and firefighting. The former pays for food, gas and grass; the the latter pays for everything else including skiing in the Alps and sunbathing in Cancun.

The purpose of business is not to sell but to create a customer...

Re: Ask HN: Where do seasoned devs look for short-term work?

#140

Post by bruce511 »

decGetAc wrote: post #133
doright wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just see it as a "mask" you put on for a specific audience that has the potential to greatly increase your prospects and then take off everywhere else. At a certain point the prospects (not going broke) override any shame you could feel. I don't think selling oneself is something that reflects on one's character given what's at stake. The important people who know who you really are will also treat that mask of you…

I mean I agree it's a mask but still feels slimy. I can get behind not going broke > overriding any shame. But I do think that some people are better at lying to themselves that the choices are going broke or make independent contractor work by selling yourself like that. There's the obvious route which is to just not be an independent contractor and get a 'normal' job where you still have to do some of this nauseati…

It's interesting that you're embarrassed by the notion of "selling yourself". Shame from self-promotion is a very cultural thing, and I'm guessing deeply embedded in your upbringing. "Don't boast" is certainly commonly taught to children.

Of course children are explicitly given everything they need. Adults need to get it for themselves.

If you are in business you need to advertise. If you are in the contract business you need to advertise you. If you can't do that, then that's OK, go get a job.

Advertising is not slimy or shameful. It's part of the job. It can be done well or badly. But the world doesn't "owe" you anything, nor will it seek you out. If you want to be independent then you need to work harder than the dependent who has an employer.

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