“Normal” engineers are the key to great teams • Hacker News Board

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#21

Post by lysace » Thu, Mar 13, 2025, 9:26 PM UTC

jajko wrote: post #15

nullpoint420 wrote: post #4

Most 10x engineers I've met are usually very creative and care deeply about the user experience and keeping code maintainable over time. Most 1x developers just care about getting the job done regardless of care or code quality, which in my experience has led to conflict.

I've rarely seen those 10x engineers to bring massive long term added value. Most are/were well aware of their skills and detested working on anything but newest and shiniest, desperately trying to make work a fun park for them regardless whether its actually a good idea for the company giving them paychecks. Which works for some time, or when extensively coached, but eventually they move since their time is oh so pr…

> I've rarely seen those 10x engineers to bring massive long term added value.

I've seen it first-hand. We ended up building a support team around the 10x:er to keep things working, but it was easily worth it. It worked very well for the life span of the product - about a decade.

Many eventually graduated to pretty fancy places. They learned a lot. This particular 10x:er loved sharing knowledge via pair-programming.

Well, he was always in command of the keyboard (typing insanely fast), but you'd sit next to him and he'd delight in explaining. Eventually you would challenge him on something and then the collaboration/adventure began.

I have had the most intellectually exhilarating times of my life working with this guy.

So yeah, 10x:ers can bring massive value if they are wired to be really nice.

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#22

Post by strangattractor » Thu, Mar 13, 2025, 9:26 PM UTC

jaggederest wrote: post #5

I like this article particularly because I think the trope that there's something unique and different about software engineering is pretty toxic, both to we people in the field and people looking to employ people in the field. These days it feels a bit like another well known toxic field, finance, in that people conflate an outsized leverage for personal valor. It's laudable to do your work well and go home to the r…

I was once considered a 10X. I would work all night. Rewrite code simply because I found it objectionable - lots of things I'd never do now. Mostly after working those long hours I return after a long rest and spend most of my time fixing all the new and ridiculous problems I created while working tired. Things may have gotten done a little faster. Never once did it even matter - there was no material benefit to the company. Projects still got canceled - team deadlines still missed - products still had bugs - company focus changed blah blah blah.

Focus is a supper power. Not getting diverted with trivial shit. Don't get distracted , avoid creating more work for yourself and others. Todays me would find yesterdays me a -10X annoyance.

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#23

Post by somekyle2 » Thu, Mar 13, 2025, 9:29 PM UTC

Some of the problem in the conversation around this is that many people take "1x engineer" to mean "not particularly competent engineer" and some take it to mean "baseline, solid contributor who isn't exceptional", and the bar for what we regard as exceptional can differ drastically. I've been on teams where everyone is pretty good and felt like I was a genius, I've been on teams with really remarkable people and felt unworthy. Nobody knows or agrees what 'x' is or that it can even be reasonably measured, so all conversations about 'x' multipliers tend to be unproductive.

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#24

Post by superconduct123 » Thu, Mar 13, 2025, 9:29 PM UTC

I think 10x is an exaggeration but I've found its really common to have 1-2 people who do a big bulk of the work

The thing I don't understand personally with these people is why they care so much about work when the rewards are not proportionate to doing so much extra work.

I get it if you're a founder of a startup but not if you're at a big company

Yet every big company I've worked at there are always 1-2 people on the team who seem completely obsessed with the project, like its their main hobby/purpose

It makes me wonder, if someone is so smart that they can do "10x" the work, would they not use that smartness to look at the meta of it all and wonder why they don't get 10x the rewards?

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#25

Post by MyOutfitIsVague » Thu, Mar 13, 2025, 9:33 PM UTC

superconduct123 wrote: post #24

I think 10x is an exaggeration but I've found its really common to have 1-2 people who do a big bulk of the work The thing I don't understand personally with these people is why they care so much about work when the rewards are not proportionate to doing so much extra work. I get it if you're a founder of a startup but not if you're at a big company Yet every big company I've worked at there are always 1-2 people on…

Some people just really like the work they do. There's nothing more to it than that.

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#26

Post by behrlich » Thu, Mar 13, 2025, 9:34 PM UTC

superconduct123 wrote: post #24

I think 10x is an exaggeration but I've found its really common to have 1-2 people who do a big bulk of the work The thing I don't understand personally with these people is why they care so much about work when the rewards are not proportionate to doing so much extra work. I get it if you're a founder of a startup but not if you're at a big company Yet every big company I've worked at there are always 1-2 people on…

> completely obsessed with the project, like it’s their main hobby/purpose

I think you figured it out.

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#27

Post by aabdi » Thu, Mar 13, 2025, 9:35 PM UTC

superconduct123 wrote: post #24

I think 10x is an exaggeration but I've found its really common to have 1-2 people who do a big bulk of the work The thing I don't understand personally with these people is why they care so much about work when the rewards are not proportionate to doing so much extra work. I get it if you're a founder of a startup but not if you're at a big company Yet every big company I've worked at there are always 1-2 people on…

it's sorta like, why doesn't everyone just kill themselves you know?

sometimes, you just find fun in things and it's cool. other times, it's like what other other thing you gonna do? fish or hang with people or do drugs or dance? software's a hobby really. sometimes its more fun.

but really it's all preference.

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#28

Post by gmm1990 » Thu, Mar 13, 2025, 9:36 PM UTC

n_ary wrote: post #12

nullpoint420 wrote: post #4

Most 10x engineers I've met are usually very creative and care deeply about the user experience and keeping code maintainable over time. Most 1x developers just care about getting the job done regardless of care or code quality, which in my experience has led to conflict.

I believe, you have got the multipliers switched. Most 1x engineers/developers care deeply about users and the end product, and also likes to keep the code well maintained and performant, so they can do their peaceful work and go home, while not making the life of the user any more miserable. Most 10x engineers are too brilliant and remain busy rocking the boat and doing so many mind blowing things at any given time…

Are there any open source repositories where this is an example? I keep hearing the 10x people ruin everything but I wouldn’t call that person 10x. I don’t understand how it’s objectionable that some people are more productive than others.

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#29

Post by mkl95 » Thu, Mar 13, 2025, 9:36 PM UTC

An average engineer with solid problem-solving skills and a good manager is like a ~3x engineer. It's way easier to hire a few of those than a 10x engineer. But you need to match them up with a good manager, and that isn't easy.

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#30

Post by Muromec » Thu, Mar 13, 2025, 9:37 PM UTC

superconduct123 wrote: post #24

I think 10x is an exaggeration but I've found its really common to have 1-2 people who do a big bulk of the work The thing I don't understand personally with these people is why they care so much about work when the rewards are not proportionate to doing so much extra work. I get it if you're a founder of a startup but not if you're at a big company Yet every big company I've worked at there are always 1-2 people on…

>The thing I don't understand personally with these people is why they care so much about work when the rewards are not proportionate to doing so much extra work.

The reward is there allright, it just isn't monetary.