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Ask HN: Where do seasoned devs look for short-term work?

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Re: Ask HN: Where do seasoned devs look for short-term work?

#91

Post by kmoser »

ryandrake wrote: post #39
paxys wrote: post #36

Having the right technical skills is only 50% of the requirement (and realistically even less than that). The harder battle is being a good salesman. Push yourself and your services at every opportunity. Send mass emails to friends and old collegues. Write daily puke-inducing posts on LinkedIn. Write blog posts and make toy Github projects with "looking for work" blurbs at the top of each one. Set a goal to post N ti…

Ugh. This is probably one of those "Thanks, I hate it!" moments. You're probably 100% right, and this is why I could never be an independent contractor. This kind of self-promotion and lead generation seems so demeaning, slimy, and shameful, and I'd probably die of embarrassment if I ever had to do it. Yet it comes so naturally to some people. It sucks that this kind of skill is required to make it on your own.

Independent contractor here. Admittedly, it's not for everybody. But once you've built up a base of clients who need your services regularly, you don't need to keep seeking more, at least not at nearly the same rate. Also, word of mouth will keep people coming to you. The reality is that I almost never have to sell myself. But I've been doing this for decades, and YMMV.

Of course, your ability to do this will be somewhat dependent on your stomach for communicating with strangers who come your way.

Re: Ask HN: Where do seasoned devs look for short-term work?

#92

Post by 3acctforcom »

fragmede wrote: post #84
ryandrake wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh. This is probably one of those "Thanks, I hate it!" moments. You're probably 100% right, and this is why I could never be an independent contractor. This kind of self-promotion and lead generation seems so demeaning, slimy, and shameful, and I'd probably die of embarrassment if I ever had to do it. Yet it comes so naturally to some people. It sucks that this kind of skill is required to make it on your own.

It's totally cringe, and the first couple of times you have to do it it'll be uncomfortable. But growth happens at the edge of your comfort zone and you'd be mistaken that everyone's a born natural at it. Most people have to practice at it in order to get good at one. Few people just born with it. So what, you're not one of them. You weren't born knowing how to program either. As far as slimy, I mean, yeah, don't bre…

Lying about the true cost of software and taking credit for your employees work is the basis for consulting. Some might term these as Profit, and Reputation. But that's sales for you.

Re: Ask HN: Where do seasoned devs look for short-term work?

#93

Post by lazyeye »

jimbokun wrote: post #79
ForHackernews wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO selling yourself (selling anything, really) is a bit demeaning. But this is probably a class affectation on my part, not real moral intuition.

You can remain dignified and poor or become demeaned and rich.

“Pessimists are often right, optimists are often happy and wealthy.”

Re: Ask HN: Where do seasoned devs look for short-term work?

#94

Post by scottLobster »

ForHackernews wrote: post #27
cushychicken wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why’s this shameful, exactly? There’s no shame in saying you’re available to work.

IMHO selling yourself (selling anything, really) is a bit demeaning. But this is probably a class affectation on my part, not real moral intuition.

Only when you're trying to sell bullshit. If I can actually solve someone's problem, and they don't mind my price, then we're helping solve each other's problems and everyone benefits!

Where things get sleezy is when you're competing with applicants that will bullshit, so you have to bullshit as well just to keep up, or when customers have unrealistic expectations and waste your time.

Re: Ask HN: Where do seasoned devs look for short-term work?

#95

Post by inetknght »

ghaff wrote: post #40
valbaca wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> deeply shameful Your feelings are what they are, but this is the least shameful post I would ever see on LinkedIn. It's someone actually looking for work! and not just posting some super cringe low-IQ engagement-farm copypasta. Finding work is exactly what LinkedIn ought to be for

I certainly don't think it's shameful. But, while that's more or less what LinkedIn was intended for, it's also become sort of a last man standing medium for professional professional posts--or at least pointers to such--unless you can organically drive enough traffic to a subscription or a website.

> it's also become sort of a last man standing medium for professional professional posts--or at least pointers to such--

With you so far...

> unless you can organically drive enough traffic to a subscription or a website.

Ahh no, I hope you don't mean to "organically" drive "enough" traffic from LinkedIn to a subscription or website elsewhere? Because that's exactly the kind of thing that's killing LinkedIn for job search and professional networking.

Re: Ask HN: Where do seasoned devs look for short-term work?

#96

Post by singleshot_ »

DrBenCarson wrote: post #89
ForHackernews wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO selling yourself (selling anything, really) is a bit demeaning. But this is probably a class affectation on my part, not real moral intuition.

Commerce is demeaning?

If you look around, I believe you will see many people buying things for fun, while those same people toil to sell something.

It appears that one half of commerce is demeaning but some people compensate with the other.

Re: Ask HN: Where do seasoned devs look for short-term work?

#97

Post by ghaff »

inetknght wrote: post #95
ghaff wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly don't think it's shameful. But, while that's more or less what LinkedIn was intended for, it's also become sort of a last man standing medium for professional professional posts--or at least pointers to such--unless you can organically drive enough traffic to a subscription or a website.

> it's also become sort of a last man standing medium for professional professional posts--or at least pointers to such-- With you so far... > unless you can organically drive enough traffic to a subscription or a website. Ahh no, I hope you don't mean to "organically" drive "enough" traffic from LinkedIn to a subscription or website elsewhere? Because that's exactly the kind of thing that's killing LinkedIn for job…

Professional networking mostly happens in-person anyway. For me, LinkedIn is mostly an updating Rolodex. But, if you have a newsletter or website, you probably need to drive traffic somehow. LinkedIn isn't the only mechanism and maybe not a very good one but it is a channel at least in the tech industry.

Re: Ask HN: Where do seasoned devs look for short-term work?

#98

Post by rsanek »

prepend wrote: post #65
sampton wrote: post #14

It depends on how badly you need the money. If you really need to get paid you are probably better off finding a full time job and quit after 9 months. Otherwise invest the time in yourself. Work on a passion project or a blog.

Usually that will burn a bridge with that employer and look bad on your resume. Much different career wise than having short term contracts that are designed around a specific job. I know that companies don’t necessarily follow an ethical standard but I find that I can at least follow personal ethics and that’s within my control. I’ve always treated my employers like I would like to be treated, even if the employer w…

You don't have to add it to your resume, right? If you want to mention the work in future interviews, you can easily talk about it as short-term contracting work.

I'm not sure what's wrong ethically about it though? Is it that you wouldn't have provided enough value to the firm in 9 months?

Re: Ask HN: Where do seasoned devs look for short-term work?

#99

Post by ghaff »

kmoser wrote: post #91
ryandrake wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh. This is probably one of those "Thanks, I hate it!" moments. You're probably 100% right, and this is why I could never be an independent contractor. This kind of self-promotion and lead generation seems so demeaning, slimy, and shameful, and I'd probably die of embarrassment if I ever had to do it. Yet it comes so naturally to some people. It sucks that this kind of skill is required to make it on your own.

Independent contractor here. Admittedly, it's not for everybody. But once you've built up a base of clients who need your services regularly, you don't need to keep seeking more, at least not at nearly the same rate. Also, word of mouth will keep people coming to you. The reality is that I almost never have to sell myself. But I've been doing this for decades, and YMMV. Of course, your ability to do this will be some…

Yeah. I have a contractor at the moment who has been in business for a long time and inherited the business from his father. He doesn't market or advertise. But he still needs to communicate and deal with someone who comes his way.

Re: Ask HN: Where do seasoned devs look for short-term work?

#100

Post by lnsru »

_ink_ wrote: post #54

Everybody says your network. Is this an US thing? Everyone in my network is employed in bigger or smaller companies. They might search for a full-time hire, but not for project work. Is this different in the EU or is my network too small?

In Germany freelance work is killed by “Scheinselbstständigkeit”. Authorities will eventually require to pay some taxes afterwards if you have only one client. Both from freelancer and the company. Companies don’t want that and shady body leasing agencies are thriving. The people from these agencies have separate offices and companies go sometimes too far to separate real employees and rented staff. Network does not help much.
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