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Building websites with lots of little HTML pages

blog.jim-nielsen.com

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Re: Building websites with lots of little HTML pages

#71

Post by ricardobeat »

stevage wrote: post #57
ricardobeat wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> doing things "the hard way" from scratch In the current landscape doing things "the hard way" in plain JS is often simpler than with React. You will give up reactivity, testability, declarative rendering, and the ability to hire any passersby, in exchange for not having to deal with a rube goldberg contraption of hooks, dependency tracking, query caches and state management, with a complex build system. Terrible id…

>In the current landscape doing things "the hard way" in plain JS is often simpler than with React. I'm not sure what "simpler" means to you. It is extremely simple to create and deploy a framework based app; `npm create vue` give it a name, answer a few questions or accept the defaults. I find programming in such an environment very "simple", because the framework is hiding a lot of complexity. > You will give up re…

> It is extremely simple to create and deploy a framework based app

That’s completely missing the point. Of course it’s easy that way, and starting from scratch. The complexity was just handled by someone else.

> if you have a codebase that has those issues

every reasonably large React codebase has these issues. If you have an example pointing otherwise I’d love to see it!

Re: Building websites with lots of little HTML pages

#72

Post by whatamidoingyo »

nchmy wrote: post #65
joeguilmette wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, SPAs are absolutely horrid. I tried to use HEY Calendar and the iOS app is just so absurdly slow I went back to the native iOS calendar app. Maybe it speeds up their dev time but a native app should not feel like a (poorly engineered) web app. Every click loads for a second or two and sometimes it hangs for even longer. I grew to dread adding and managing events. It’s a shame because even though the app made som…

When did you try hey calendar? I've never used anything from hey, but saw a lot of griping about its performance, and eventually saw that they apparently addressed the primary issues.

I was recently tasked with building a PWA to escape the play stores. A vitally important feature was notifications for the messaging system.

Hours of research trying to figure out how to deliver a notification through the PWA, even if the application was closed. Eventually I thought it wasn't going to be possible. But I remembered the HEY products were PWAs, and they had an email product. Surely that has the notification feature I'm trying to replicate? It's a paid service.

... no, I couldn't get their notifications to work, even though I enabled all of the proper settings. Crazy.

However, when I was about to give up and abandon the entire project, I had one of those moments, and got it to work.

Re: Building websites with lots of little HTML pages

#74

Post by freedomben »

whatamidoingyo wrote: post #72
nchmy wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did you try hey calendar? I've never used anything from hey, but saw a lot of griping about its performance, and eventually saw that they apparently addressed the primary issues.

I was recently tasked with building a PWA to escape the play stores. A vitally important feature was notifications for the messaging system. Hours of research trying to figure out how to deliver a notification through the PWA, even if the application was closed. Eventually I thought it wasn't going to be possible. But I remembered the HEY products were PWAs, and they had an email product. Surely that has the notifica…

Did you end up getting notifications working with your PWA? That's something I've worried about

Re: Building websites with lots of little HTML pages

#76

Post by whatamidoingyo »

freedomben wrote: post #74
whatamidoingyo wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was recently tasked with building a PWA to escape the play stores. A vitally important feature was notifications for the messaging system. Hours of research trying to figure out how to deliver a notification through the PWA, even if the application was closed. Eventually I thought it wasn't going to be possible. But I remembered the HEY products were PWAs, and they had an email product. Surely that has the notifica…

Did you end up getting notifications working with your PWA? That's something I've worried about

> However, when I was about to give up and abandon the entire project, I had one of those moments, and got it to work.

Yes. So much relief. Although it was a bit more difficult than I thought it would be.

Re: Building websites with lots of little HTML pages

#77

Post by joeguilmette »

nchmy wrote: post #65
joeguilmette wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, SPAs are absolutely horrid. I tried to use HEY Calendar and the iOS app is just so absurdly slow I went back to the native iOS calendar app. Maybe it speeds up their dev time but a native app should not feel like a (poorly engineered) web app. Every click loads for a second or two and sometimes it hangs for even longer. I grew to dread adding and managing events. It’s a shame because even though the app made som…

When did you try hey calendar? I've never used anything from hey, but saw a lot of griping about its performance, and eventually saw that they apparently addressed the primary issues.

I used it from launch to… last week? I still have some events on there but I’m done.

Re: Building websites with lots of little HTML pages

#78

Post by busymom0 »

On a similar note, does anyone know if it's possible without JavaScript for a link or form or something similar to be submitted without the whole page refreshing and still being able to update some text?

For example, the upvote, favorite, and reply actions on hacker news website. They all require a whole page refresh. Is it possible to achieve it without page refresh and without JavaScript?

Re: Building websites with lots of little HTML pages

#79

Post by hilti »

jiggawatts wrote: post #42
bob1029 wrote: post #11

Old school web tech is the best. I still reach for multipart/form-data every day. Many of my web applications do not even have javascript. I hope at some point the original pattern is re-discovered and made popular again because it would make things so much snappier: 1. Initial GET request from user's browser against index and maybe favicon. 2. Server provides static/dynamic HTML document w/ optional JS, all based up…

> some incredibly shocking statistics I recently had a discussion with some "web developers" that just... couldn't understand how a web application could interact with the server without JavaScript and a REST API. They had never heard of traditional web forms! They didn't even know that was an option. That blew my mind. PS: Look into https://htmx.org/

I wonder how these „web developers“ react, if they discover secret sauces like SSE, the „disabled“ attribute of elements and SSI (server side includes)

I‘d love to be in the same room, when they edit their packages.json, spin up Docker just to create a basic CRUD form

LOL

Re: Building websites with lots of little HTML pages

#80

Post by lelanthran »

bob1029 wrote: post #11

Old school web tech is the best. I still reach for multipart/form-data every day. Many of my web applications do not even have javascript. I hope at some point the original pattern is re-discovered and made popular again because it would make things so much snappier: 1. Initial GET request from user's browser against index and maybe favicon. 2. Server provides static/dynamic HTML document w/ optional JS, all based up…

I like form submissions too, but it's not for everywhere.

For example, file uploads using multipart form submissions is a poor user experience - you cannot put in a percentage-complete bar anywhere because there is no way to determine how much data was transmitted.

When a file upload is taking 5m, the user is liable to think that the upload failed, and then retry, or give up. Very poor UX.

Other than that one exception, I cannot really think of any other place in which form submissions are the inferior choice.

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