Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Steam Networks

worksinprogress.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 161 posts

Re: Steam Networks

#51

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

> The last total system failure was in 2007, when an 82-year-old pipe at 41st and Lexington exploded, showering Midtown in debris. Heavy rainfall had cooled the pipes, producing large amounts of condensate quickly, and a clogged steam trap meant that the system was unable to expel the water. When this build-up hit a critical level, the internal pressure shot up, causing the explosion. Almost fifty people were injured, and one woman died of a heart attack while fleeing

The photo of this explosion makes it look huge. I wonder how much the pent up infrastructure work to avoid these issues would cost. Are water or gas pipes also vulnerable to this sort of thing?

Re: Steam Networks

#52

Post by a1371 »

someuser2345 wrote: post #33
imglorp wrote: post #30

The article cites end-to-end efficiency as 60%. Plus the costs of maintaining steam generators and the pipe network. Electrical transmission systems are roughly 85% efficient to the consumer; together with boring old resistive electric radiators which are 100% efficient. So is there any reason to subscribe to the steam system for new construction?

Most electricity is generated by using steam to turn turbines, right? So it definitely seems more efficient to just use the steam directly, instead of converting it to electrical energy and then converting it back to heat.

That's not true. Except for nuclear and solar collectors, all renewables, especially hydro, have nothing to do with steam.

Re: Steam Networks

#53

Post by martindbp »

pbronez wrote: post #6

TIL that steam distribution was invented in the USA around 1880, and is still used in NYC. Never occurred to me that “Steam Plants” literally produce steam for distribution. I thought that was a glib reference to the white smoke they produce!

Valve's "Steam" platform naming makes more sense from this perspective. Literally the pipes transporting games to customers.

Re: Steam Networks

#54

Post by bluGill »

someuser2345 wrote: post #33
imglorp wrote: post #30

The article cites end-to-end efficiency as 60%. Plus the costs of maintaining steam generators and the pipe network. Electrical transmission systems are roughly 85% efficient to the consumer; together with boring old resistive electric radiators which are 100% efficient. So is there any reason to subscribe to the steam system for new construction?

Most electricity is generated by using steam to turn turbines, right? So it definitely seems more efficient to just use the steam directly, instead of converting it to electrical energy and then converting it back to heat.

Where I live most electricity is generated from wind. Solar also has a large share of some grids. Your location may be different but it should have a significant renewable share by now.

Re: Steam Networks

#55

Post by jszymborski »

imglorp wrote: post #30

The article cites end-to-end efficiency as 60%. Plus the costs of maintaining steam generators and the pipe network. Electrical transmission systems are roughly 85% efficient to the consumer; together with boring old resistive electric radiators which are 100% efficient. So is there any reason to subscribe to the steam system for new construction?

Not my expertise, but my understanding is that district heating is a very very efficient way to store electricity, such that the inefficiencies in transmission are mitigated in part by the storage efficiency. This allows you to more reliably depend on energy sources that don't have 100% uptime.

That said, I think most of this applies to heated water, not steam.

Re: Steam Networks

#56

Post by wrenky »

T-zex wrote: post #8

I always thought watching films that steam in the dark streets was some cool 80s aesthetics. As in 'You are in this dark corner of the city where nobody can hear you' scary or edgy.

I thought that too (but more New York Christmas Eve movie impressions) until I saw steam coming from manholes in Denver. Blew my mind that it was a real thing haha.

In addition to the heating/cooling uses, the mint in Denver uses it to clean coins!

Re: Steam Networks

#57

Post by outworlder »

a1371 wrote: post #52
someuser2345 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most electricity is generated by using steam to turn turbines, right? So it definitely seems more efficient to just use the steam directly, instead of converting it to electrical energy and then converting it back to heat.

That's not true. Except for nuclear and solar collectors, all renewables, especially hydro, have nothing to do with steam.

What isn't true?

> Most electricity is generated by using steam to turn turbines

That is true. It is also true that renewables usually do not use steam. But they don't answer for "most electricity". That's natural gas, coal and other types of thermal plants, including nuclear.

Re: Steam Networks

#58

Post by kibwen »

a1371 wrote: post #52
someuser2345 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most electricity is generated by using steam to turn turbines, right? So it definitely seems more efficient to just use the steam directly, instead of converting it to electrical energy and then converting it back to heat.

That's not true. Except for nuclear and solar collectors, all renewables, especially hydro, have nothing to do with steam.

Geothermal plants also use steam (not to be confused with geothermal heating/cooling, which is just a heat pump with the heat exchanger underground rather than in the air).

Re: Steam Networks

#59

Post by jdwithit »

coryk135 wrote: post #25

This part really caught my attention: > in 1962, the anthracite seam under Centralia, PA – 25 miles to the west of Lehigh County – caught on fire and is still burning today.) That’s crazy to think that for over 60 years there’s been an underground coal mine on fire. I wonder how long the mines will burn for. The pictures on Google are quite interesting.

Yeah the Centralia story is wild. Who knows when the fire might ever go out? It's caught the imagination of many writers over the years, who have either been inspired by it or used it directly as a setting. Mostly in horror/paranormal content. As the Wikipedia entry notes

"Centralia has been used as a model for many different fictional ghost towns and manifestations of Hell. Prominent examples include Dean Koontz's Strange Highways and David Wellington's Vampire Zero."

Re: Steam Networks

#60

Post by kraftman »

martindbp wrote: post #53
pbronez wrote: post #6

TIL that steam distribution was invented in the USA around 1880, and is still used in NYC. Never occurred to me that “Steam Plants” literally produce steam for distribution. I thought that was a glib reference to the white smoke they produce!

Valve's "Steam" platform naming makes more sense from this perspective. Literally the pipes transporting games to customers.

I was hoping this article would be about some crazy new networking inovation from Valve!
Post reply on HN