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Steam Networks

worksinprogress.co

31–40 of 161 posts

Re: Steam Networks

#31

This part really caught my attention: > in 1962, the anthracite seam under Centralia, PA – 25 miles to the west of Lehigh County – caught on fire and is still burning today.) That’s crazy to think that for over 60 years there’s been an underground coal mine on fire. I wonder how long the mines will burn for. The pictures on Google are quite interesting.

There's Burning Mountain in Australia which has been burning for thousands of years.

Re: Steam Networks

#32
post #30

The article cites end-to-end efficiency as 60%. Plus the costs of maintaining steam generators and the pipe network. Electrical transmission systems are roughly 85% efficient to the consumer; together with boring old resistive electric radiators which are 100% efficient. So is there any reason to subscribe to the steam system for new construction?

At least where I live, the Steam is either reused from thermal power plant waste heat which would be evaporated off anyways, or its the heat directly produced from specialised combined electric/thermal gas plants (Blockheizkraftwerk). Also, general industrial waste heat is sometimes used (glass plants e.g).

Re: Steam Networks

#33
post #30

The article cites end-to-end efficiency as 60%. Plus the costs of maintaining steam generators and the pipe network. Electrical transmission systems are roughly 85% efficient to the consumer; together with boring old resistive electric radiators which are 100% efficient. So is there any reason to subscribe to the steam system for new construction?

Most electricity is generated by using steam to turn turbines, right? So it definitely seems more efficient to just use the steam directly, instead of converting it to electrical energy and then converting it back to heat.

Re: Steam Networks

#34
post #8

I always thought watching films that steam in the dark streets was some cool 80s aesthetics. As in 'You are in this dark corner of the city where nobody can hear you' scary or edgy.

I grew up in a city without steam and the sewers would still smoke like that when it got cool out, like early morning; its still fairly warm down there

Re: Steam Networks

#35
post #30

The article cites end-to-end efficiency as 60%. Plus the costs of maintaining steam generators and the pipe network. Electrical transmission systems are roughly 85% efficient to the consumer; together with boring old resistive electric radiators which are 100% efficient. So is there any reason to subscribe to the steam system for new construction?

In terms of thermodynamics, a electric resistive heater is 100% efficient, but if the measurement is how many BTU of heating you can put into a room in a day with a certain amount of watt hours, a modern heat pump will always beat it. Also of course 100% electric.

Re: Steam Networks

#36
post #30

The article cites end-to-end efficiency as 60%. Plus the costs of maintaining steam generators and the pipe network. Electrical transmission systems are roughly 85% efficient to the consumer; together with boring old resistive electric radiators which are 100% efficient. So is there any reason to subscribe to the steam system for new construction?

Most energy is generated from steam that has a terrible efficiency of 40%

Re: Steam Networks

#37
post #30

The article cites end-to-end efficiency as 60%. Plus the costs of maintaining steam generators and the pipe network. Electrical transmission systems are roughly 85% efficient to the consumer; together with boring old resistive electric radiators which are 100% efficient. So is there any reason to subscribe to the steam system for new construction?

> Electrical transmission systems are roughly 85% efficient to the consumer;

Electrical generation itself isn't a 100% efficient. For example a gas powered electricity plant is about 60% efficient for generating electricity. Generating heat from gas is far more efficient.

Then again if you use the electricity not for direct heating but for example to power a heatpump on the other end (i.e. you use the electricity to extract heat from the air) then it could be more efficient.

Re: Steam Networks

#38
post #30

The article cites end-to-end efficiency as 60%. Plus the costs of maintaining steam generators and the pipe network. Electrical transmission systems are roughly 85% efficient to the consumer; together with boring old resistive electric radiators which are 100% efficient. So is there any reason to subscribe to the steam system for new construction?

In terms of thermodynamics, a electric resistive heater is 100% efficient, but if the measurement is how many BTU of heating you can put into a room in a day with a certain amount of watt hours, a modern heat pump will always beat it. Also of course 100% electric.

A heat pump is more than 100% efficient on that measure.

I am not sure about "always". Does it not depend on the temperature difference?

The use cases for steam seem to be where you need more than room heating though: the first paragraph mentions sterilising medical equipment, humidity control, and washing.

Re: Steam Networks

#39
post #30

The article cites end-to-end efficiency as 60%. Plus the costs of maintaining steam generators and the pipe network. Electrical transmission systems are roughly 85% efficient to the consumer; together with boring old resistive electric radiators which are 100% efficient. So is there any reason to subscribe to the steam system for new construction?

Yes: very low temperature steam is useless from a thermodynamic perspective, cannot be used to perform (meaningful amounts of) work or generate electricity. When sourced a waste byproduct of an electric power plant, it's essentially free—it has no other economic value.

There's zero opportunity cost of "you could use it for some other purpose instead".

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