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Gemma 3 Technical Report [pdf]

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Re: Gemma 3 Technical Report [pdf]

#141

Post by Workaccount2 »

idiotsecant wrote: post #127
miki123211 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's harmful in that there exists a significant and vocal subset of users who does not wish to see that content or does not wish their children to do so. It's easier to teach your model never to produce that kind of content than to teach it to perfectly distinguish whether this user should see that content or not. TV channels are barred from broadcasting this kind of content for similar reasons. Sure, there are alway…

Yes, it would be absolutely shameful if there was pornography on the internet, easily available to anyone, even children . Society would crumble!

It's funny because the results are in, millennials grew up with pretty easy access to all manner of porn from an early age and the effect has been nothing. Even a reduction in intimacy if anything.

I'm sure the hysterical puritans of the past will come out any day now and admit that they weren't even 1% correct in their assertions.

Re: Gemma 3 Technical Report [pdf]

#142

Post by Workaccount2 »

thunkingdeep wrote: post #71
smrq wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to get more puritanical than "if you disagree with my opinion then you're morally repulsive". Not to mention that your argument implies that all traces of sex ought to be scrubbed from the entire Internet ? And that that conclusion is the only moral one?

Hard to get more perverse than “kids should have access to sexually explicit material at all times in any medium. If that sounds fucked up when I say it like that, consider what assumptions you’re making, because that’s literally YOUR argument here.

Millennials, who are now well into adulthood, grew up with easy and readily available access to porn. I know when I was in middle school it was everywhere. Kids would even hand out burned CDs of porn.

Please show the damage that it did to that generation. If you are "sky is blue" levels of correct, the evidence should be everywhere. So please, present it.

If there is no real evidence, reply with "So you are saying we should endorse porn for everyone" or some other strawman along those lines. Thanks.

Re: Gemma 3 Technical Report [pdf]

#143

Post by Workaccount2 »

mdp2021 wrote: post #106
alekandreev wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an idea we've thought about. However, we think the open source community has already created a very impressive set of language or region-specific finetunes [1] [2]. Also there is a lot of cultural and nuance context in every language that we don't have the capacity to cover sufficiently. So for v3 we focused on creating the best foundational multilingual model. [1] https://huggingface.co/aiplanet/buddhi-indic…

And have you measured the trade-off that could come with embracing such a large number of languages and alphabets? It would be interesting to note whether you are sacrificing some response quality, or if such supposed sacrifice is interestingly negligible, or if - even more interestingly - the quality increases with the added proficiency.

There are enough small model teams competing that I fell confident one of them will try this, and if it just sticking to english gives a large boost, the others will be forced to follow suite.

It would also kind of suck for non-english speakers, because it will just be another feather in the hat of "English eats the world".

Re: Gemma 3 Technical Report [pdf]

#144

Post by swyx »

andai wrote: post #114
miki123211 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's harmful in that there exists a significant and vocal subset of users who does not wish to see that content or does not wish their children to do so. It's easier to teach your model never to produce that kind of content than to teach it to perfectly distinguish whether this user should see that content or not. TV channels are barred from broadcasting this kind of content for similar reasons. Sure, there are alway…

I heard of this described as the minority effect, that a small minority can have a disproportionate impact. The example given is that it's cheaper to make all instances of a product kosher or halal than to make an entirely separate product.

"tyranny of the minority" https://revista.drclas.harvard.edu/a-review-of-tyranny-of-th...

Re: Gemma 3 Technical Report [pdf]

#145

Post by tomrod »

miki123211 wrote: post #70
LeoPanthera wrote: post #13

> They are designed to help prevent our models from generating harmful content, i.e., > [...] > Sexually explicit content Dear tech companies. Sexually explicit content is not harmful. Why are you all run by puritans? I don't even want to make edgy porn, I just want to be treated like an adult.

It's harmful in that there exists a significant and vocal subset of users who does not wish to see that content or does not wish their children to do so. It's easier to teach your model never to produce that kind of content than to teach it to perfectly distinguish whether this user should see that content or not. TV channels are barred from broadcasting this kind of content for similar reasons. Sure, there are alway…

> It's harmful in that there exists a significant and vocal subset of users who does not wish to see that content or does not wish their children to do so.

"I have a right to live in a society that perfectly adheres to my personal morals" is not how companies or people should operate in a pluralistic society, despite Nassim Taleb's claim that the intolerant minority wins.[0]

[0] https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...

Re: Gemma 3 Technical Report [pdf]

#146

Post by seektable »

seektable wrote: post #139
miki123211 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How good is Gemma at structured output generation, JSON schema compliance and tool use? Particularly the smaller versions, particularly in foreign languages? We will run our internal evals on it for sure, but just wanted to ask whether that's even a use case that the team considered and trained for.

Just tried gemma3:4b for structured output and it fails with a strange error ( ollama is the latest): Ollama error: POST predict: Post " http://127.0.0.1:49675/completion ": read tcp 127.0.0.1:49677->127.0.0.1:49675: wsarecv: An existing connection was forcibly closed by the remote host. Not sure this is Ollama or gemma3:4b problem. At the same time, gemma3:12b works fine for the same API request (100% identical, onl…

looks like Ollama's issue: https://github.com/ollama/ollama/issues/9686, https://github.com/ollama/ollama/issues/9687

Re: Gemma 3 Technical Report [pdf]

#147

Post by startupsfail »

rcleveng wrote: post #136
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this is true but then it's as easy as releasing censored and uncensored versions of the model. Then it's up to users (or parents, in the case of children) to choose the adequate version for each purpose. Just like there are child-friendly movies and adult-only movies, and no one beyond fringe puritan crusaders would say that the latter should outright not exist.

I think it's easy to released the uncensored version, it's just the censored version that's likely super super hard. Since this is just giving the model directly, there's no ability to do any filtering as part of inference, so I would imagine you have to assume the worst (intent) on any input coming into it.

There are also some practical constraints, like any kind of erotic content is completely prohibited in some regulations (like India), so if you want to be able to have access to human labeling or deploy the model under these regulations, you do need to comply.

It’ll get easier once the costs of building foundational models go down and human labeling gets automated. Sit tight, models that’d be creative and amazing at generating erotic content are certainly coming.

Re: Gemma 3 Technical Report [pdf]

#148

Post by AtomBalm »

smrq wrote: post #62
thunkingdeep wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Hard to get more puritanical than "if you disagree with my opinion then you're morally repulsive". Not to mention that your argument implies that all traces of sex ought to be scrubbed from the entire Internet ? And that that conclusion is the only moral one?

There are no Puritans and haven’t been for a few centuries. You’re screaming at ghosts. He or she may be Muslim. You should respect the culture.

Re: Gemma 3 Technical Report [pdf]

#149

Post by alekandreev »

moffkalast wrote: post #132
alekandreev wrote: post #33

Greetings from the Gemma team! We just got Gemma 3 out of the oven and are super excited to show it to you! Please drop any questions here and we'll answer ASAP. (Opinions our own and not of Google DeepMind.) PS we are hiring: https://boards.greenhouse.io/deepmind/jobs/6590957

What's the official take on the system prompt? The technical report doesn't mention it, but the official QAT GGUFs include some form of prepending it to the first user message. Has it been trained with any system turns with tool calls and such?

We recommend using user for the system prompt as well.

Re: Gemma 3 Technical Report [pdf]

#150

Post by [deleted] »

littlestymaar wrote: post #67
bloomingkales wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have an uncensored model loop through nypost articles and ask it to synthesize content from that. Nypost has tons of scandalous content and can easily get spun into erotica by an uncensored model. It’s unsafe for that reason, so you absolutely needed both censored and uncensored. It wasn’t an accident.

> can easily get spun into erotica by an uncensored model. A sexualized fine-tune yes, but that's because you have to make them overly horny to overcome the original censorship. Nothing prevent them to train a model that will have an appropriate level of sexual content (that is, only upon user explicit request) the same way they train it not to have sexual content at all. The reason they do that is because they are A…

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