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British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

theguardian.com

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Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#241

Post by necovek »

davkan wrote: post #236
necovek wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is only one way to enforce the law, which is to enforce it upon learning of all the circumstances, both in favour and not in favour of the accused. The fact that you are not familiar with the law never protects you by design ("oh sorry, I never realised I wasn't allowed to just take their bike and ride away") — so it's upon the courts to make judgement on the entire set of circumstances. The problem with any im…

At almost every level officers and officials have the ability to exercise discretion in their enforcement of the law. What happened to this lady was likely within the confines of the law but was it justice?

I think in this particular case, it's really hard for an immigration officer to do something nicer: she's been denied entry on either side of a land crossing due to obviously admitting to planning to or having already worked.

At an international airport, there's a large transit area where someone can dwell until they find a departing option.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#242

Post by necovek »

kennysoona wrote: post #191
necovek wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the conditions are far from ideal, but if that's how US generally deals with people waiting for their court dates, it's what it is. This does not mean US should not work to improve those conditions for everyone — I don't see a difference between a Mexican person overstaying or her overstaying from the angle of immigration clerks — it should! US should also certainly adapt laws to avoid any "detention" fo…

> I agree that the conditions are far from ideal, but if that's how US generally deals with people waiting for their court dates, it's what it is. It's what it is under Trump. 3 months ago Someone in this situation wouldn't have been detained for this long and in the news for such a minor offense. > This does not mean US should not work to improve those conditions for everyone This wasn't happening before for cases l…

More than a decade ago, a UK or Italian colleague travelling into US for a business trip said in an entry interview they are coming in "for work". An IT person, and way before Trump himself even had an idea of becoming a president.

They were drilled for hours until finally they let them in: it required producing a lot of paperwork by the company hosting the event on top of the traveller's documentation.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#243

Post by necovek »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #181
necovek wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the conditions are far from ideal, but if that's how US generally deals with people waiting for their court dates, it's what it is. This does not mean US should not work to improve those conditions for everyone — I don't see a difference between a Mexican person overstaying or her overstaying from the angle of immigration clerks — it should! US should also certainly adapt laws to avoid any "detention" fo…

> but if that's how US generally deals with people waiting for their court dates, it's what it is. Historically, (as in: during periods where Trump is not president) it is not.

It did happen before as well: see above comment I made about my IT colleague being drilled for hours when they said they were coming in "for work" instead of "for a business trip".

If you've not passed US border control as a foreigner, you really have no idea of what a pleasant experience it... is not.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#244

Post by kennysoona »

necovek wrote: post #242
kennysoona wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I agree that the conditions are far from ideal, but if that's how US generally deals with people waiting for their court dates, it's what it is. It's what it is under Trump. 3 months ago Someone in this situation wouldn't have been detained for this long and in the news for such a minor offense. > This does not mean US should not work to improve those conditions for everyone This wasn't happening before for cases l…

More than a decade ago, a UK or Italian colleague travelling into US for a business trip said in an entry interview they are coming in "for work". An IT person, and way before Trump himself even had an idea of becoming a president. They were drilled for hours until finally they let them in: it required producing a lot of paperwork by the company hosting the event on top of the traveller's documentation.

Were they ever in an orange prison jumpsuit?

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#245

Post by oliwarner »

necovek wrote: post #240
oliwarner wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is only one way to enforce the law Treating every possible infraction like a hard felony is both costly to the taxpayer and chilling to tourists. The approach of ICE appears to be: Nobody has rights, no search is unreasonable, harvest all the data, then lock everyone up and put them at the back of a hearing queue. Post-9/11 America is a horrible border experience for legitimate tourists. It is repeatedly note…

Who said anything about taking the hardest line? You could treat everyone amicably until proven otherwise.

I was just expanding on how ICE seems to implement its "one way to enforce the law".

They catch and detain people. Sometimes, some of the people with jobs, homes, families —something to lose— get bail after a hearing, but they only account for ~50% of ICE detainees. When you also factor that the average ICE detention is over 50 days, many of the people who attain bail, are only doing so after many weeks in prison.

I'm not saying you agree with that, but you seemed to be [at least partially] rebutting the previous comment. I think this case, and many like it could be dealt with that don't involve being kidnapped at the border. Either just rebuffing their entry, or trusting them enough and allowing them to return home via an internal airport if they already have a return ticket.

Or even just trusting people until they've committed a crime. Many people with border issues are merely suspected that they might be intending to work, intending to stay.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#246

Post by orwin »

bruceb wrote: post #215
orwin wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so expensive to not take a return ticket, I doubt she didn't had a return plane ticket. Maybe she moved her flight or missed it, but only rich people don't buy a return ticket.

I am not sure if the comment is serious or not. Often one way tix are not much more than half a round trip tix It used to be one way tickets were like 70+% of a round trip, not as much anymore

For international trips it's still the case, at least in my country?

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#247

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

necovek wrote: post #243
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but if that's how US generally deals with people waiting for their court dates, it's what it is. Historically, (as in: during periods where Trump is not president) it is not.

It did happen before as well: see above comment I made about my IT colleague being drilled for hours when they said they were coming in "for work" instead of "for a business trip". If you've not passed US border control as a foreigner, you really have no idea of what a pleasant experience it... is not.

My point was not that "being drilled" did not happen.

Being locked up in a detention center for days (and in solitary confinement in at least one recent case) for this sort of violation would have been rare to non-existent.

I crossed the US border many times as a foreigner, although I am now a citizen. The easiest kind of foreigner though - white, anglo, male, middle class. Even those qualifications don't seem like enough to stop the absurd responses from ICE anymore, though.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#248

Post by motbus3 »

stevenwoo wrote: post #107
motbus3 wrote: post #105

I'm just waiting for this immigration crackdown to be done with and then we'll need to see who will be blamed for bad economy numbers.

They are ahead of you already, they are going to fudge/hide the numbers. https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/trump-admin-disbands-two... This is like Soviet/CCCP style make the numbers match the plan sort of thing.

I am quite afraid to comment things on internet nowadays

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#249

Post by DidYaWipe »

jajko wrote: post #117
bloomingeek wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have English relatives, my son-in-laws family, lovely people. They want to come visit again, but are concerned about the craziness of the current administration. When they visit, they spend plenty of money and have a great time. Does the GOP think tourists from other countries aren't paying attention?!?

Wanted to visit US for 2 weeks next year or one after with kids. Forget that, will reevaluate that decision in 4 years but not holding my breath about future development. Shame...

I hear Canada's nice...

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#250

Post by stevenwoo »

motbus3 wrote: post #248
stevenwoo wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are ahead of you already, they are going to fudge/hide the numbers. https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/trump-admin-disbands-two... This is like Soviet/CCCP style make the numbers match the plan sort of thing.

I am quite afraid to comment things on internet nowadays

The proposed prosecution of environmental non profit groups looks like they are edging their way towards that end. https://newrepublic.com/post/192660/trump-fbi-charge-climate...
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