Would say India is big enough country with enough people and knows how to take care of its own business, democracy or others.
India's Battle to Control the Democracy Narrative
21–30 of 110 posts
Re: India's Battle to Control the Democracy Narrative
#22I once took a deep dive into the methodology of one of the custodians of "democracy rankings". It is one of the 2 most popular custodians.
Their methodology for each country was different.
For India their methodology was to survey 36 important people in the country. They did not disclose who these people were.
The survey asked them to share whether democracy was "backsliding" or whether it was becoming stronger, than the past.
Re: India's Battle to Control the Democracy Narrative
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sometimes I do find it bizzare when western media praises a theocratic absolute monarchy like Saudi Arabia for “modernizing” (by allowing women to drive and allowing them to not have chaperones) while simultaneously these same media organizations accuse a constitutional liberal democracy like India (which has strict separation of powers and an active independent Supreme Court) of somehow being authoritarian or fascis…
The BJP is certainly authoritarian and fascistic, this is not contested. The country itself though probably isn’t. They failed to get an outright majority in the recent elections, and perhaps the main reason they still win is the opposition is completely incapable of reform (like the OP said they keep putting up members of the Gandhi family despite them losing elections repeatedly).
> The country itself though probably isn’t.
It's hard to define that - on average? In the long run? What would a Indian who is Muslim say - 'well, it's ok because on average or in the long run, it's ok'?
Re: India's Battle to Control the Democracy Narrative
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
The BJP is certainly authoritarian and fascistic, this is not contested. The country itself though probably isn’t. They failed to get an outright majority in the recent elections, and perhaps the main reason they still win is the opposition is completely incapable of reform (like the OP said they keep putting up members of the Gandhi family despite them losing elections repeatedly).
Has there been an Indian government that will be viewed favorably through western lenses? - Pt. Nehru wanted Socialism and State Control. - Indira Gandhi brought the Emergency and all that came with that - PM Vajpayee conducted the nuclear test - PM Modi is viewed as an authoritarian and fascist I think these cover the most influential leaders over the last 75 years. Only PM Manmohan Singh stands up to such scrutiny.
Every leader in the world gets criticized to some degree. It's nonsense to compare criticism of Vajpayee over nuclear tests with Modi or Gandhi rolling back freedom and democracy, and killing and brutalizing people.
Re: India's Battle to Control the Democracy Narrative
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
Media sensationalism is everywhere. But I’ve become especially distrustful of these rankings and labels from random think tanks or nonprofits. A good example is the one the other day from “civicus that claimed civic freedoms were disappearing in the US even though no law has changed that would affect civil rights. When you look at their report it basically complains about political decisions rather than civic freedom…
i wouldnt describe it as rapid, but there certainly are examples of covil rights declines, mostly via court decisions. eg. overturning roe v wade, and allowing gerrymandering based on race the most recent wpuld be executive orders stripping visas and greencards based on protected speech
Civil rights are declining for immigrants, the press, speech - just because a law hasn't been passed doesn't mean rights haven't changed. The idea that it all depends on law is naive or disingenuous.
Re: India's Battle to Control the Democracy Narrative
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
The BJP is certainly authoritarian and fascistic, this is not contested. The country itself though probably isn’t. They failed to get an outright majority in the recent elections, and perhaps the main reason they still win is the opposition is completely incapable of reform (like the OP said they keep putting up members of the Gandhi family despite them losing elections repeatedly).
Has there been an Indian government that will be viewed favorably through western lenses? - Pt. Nehru wanted Socialism and State Control. - Indira Gandhi brought the Emergency and all that came with that - PM Vajpayee conducted the nuclear test - PM Modi is viewed as an authoritarian and fascist I think these cover the most influential leaders over the last 75 years. Only PM Manmohan Singh stands up to such scrutiny.
What's a western lens? Borris Johnson looked good through a "western lens."
Re: India's Battle to Control the Democracy Narrative
#27Modi has the highest approval rating, according to western pollsters, of any leader in the world. India’s elections are free and fair. That’s all democracy requires. Democracy doesn’t mean western democracy or liberal democracy. Shadi Hamid has done excellent work on this issue: https://www.brookings.edu/books/the-problem-of-democracy-ame... ; see also https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jan/18/the-problem-of...
The Guardian article is interesting because it helped untangle the idea of liberalism and democracy in my mind. How did they become so deeply linked?
Because illiberals, when realizing their beliefs aren't all that popular, don't tend to pack it in and give it up to democracy.
Re: India's Battle to Control the Democracy Narrative
#28Modi has the highest approval rating, according to western pollsters, of any leader in the world. India’s elections are free and fair. That’s all democracy requires. Democracy doesn’t mean western democracy or liberal democracy. Shadi Hamid has done excellent work on this issue: https://www.brookings.edu/books/the-problem-of-democracy-ame... ; see also https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jan/18/the-problem-of...
> India’s elections are free and fair.
Are they, when people opposing one candidate are jailed?
> That’s all democracy requires.
That is certainly false. Democracy isn't mob rule, or as the saying go, it's not two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Democracy is about self-determination for each person; if people in minority don't have self-determination, it's not democracy at all.
Re: India's Battle to Control the Democracy Narrative
#29Would say India is big enough country with enough people and knows how to take care of its own business, democracy or others.
How does size indicate that? Many big countries have done horrible things.
Re: India's Battle to Control the Democracy Narrative
#30A few things that stand out (not that it's that shocking!) - Narratives matter -- a lot . Second order effects of such subjective rankings are real . Imagine getting a credit downgrade because someone perceives the democracy to be under threat - "the government had reverse-engineered the ranking, strategically identifying procedural tweaks that directly boosted India’s scores in Delhi and Mumbai—the two cities evalua…
Statecraft at its finest? Next, I'll hear that KPI manipulation sets the standard for good engineering...