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America Is Missing The New Labor Economy – Robotics Part 1

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Re: America Is Missing The New Labor Economy – Robotics Part 1

#141

Post by thiagoharry »

kccqzy wrote: post #114
megaman821 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are manufacturing jobs special? People will upgrade their tastes to consume more. Middle class houses with artistic stone work and well-manicured gardens. Skin treatments, massages, and health scans galore. More entertainment and more niche too. Banking apps that could win design awards. We are nowhere near the end of useful work.

Your comment perfectly illustrates why communism doesn't work. The one-sentence summary of communism is "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" and clearly people's needs grow. I don't know how much longer CCP can still keep communism in its name; how will CCP leaders reconcile that the fact that only by abandoning communism did the country rise?

Communism, as you described, is an ideal. An horizon, a direction to walk. Therefore, it never was achieved, and it is not expected to be achieved in any short term. So, it does not make sense saying that only after abandoning communism China rose. What they abandonned was a soviet flavour of socialism. Communism never existed (at least not the flavor that you described), but it is still an inspiration and source of values. Perhaps in a far future, with more technology, and without existing an upper class above a lower class this could be possible.

Re: America Is Missing The New Labor Economy – Robotics Part 1

#142

Post by [deleted] »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #79
blueyes wrote: post #18

Some authors of this piece are deeply involved themselves in building robots and other hardware technology. They should be taken seriously. The US is moving into a trade war, however unwise, with the country that supplies components for everything we make and need. That country has expansionist ambitions and a superior manufacturing base, which is typically what wins wars.

We can eventually automate our economy by buying software and hardware from China. By electing Trump, we basically missed the chance to lead on anything, and instead decided to engage full time in trade and culture wars that aren't really going to yield anything. But as long as the work gets done, even if in China, we should be able to enjoy it.

[deleted]

Re: America Is Missing The New Labor Economy – Robotics Part 1

#143

Post by megaman821 »

paganel wrote: post #138
megaman821 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are manufacturing jobs special? People will upgrade their tastes to consume more. Middle class houses with artistic stone work and well-manicured gardens. Skin treatments, massages, and health scans galore. More entertainment and more niche too. Banking apps that could win design awards. We are nowhere near the end of useful work.

> Why are manufacturing jobs special? Because you need manufacturing to win wars, or to be seen by outside great powers that you're in a position of winning wars. You're not winning wars based on git commit messages, but based on the steel any one country is able to produce at a certain moment in time (and to transform it into tanks/armoured vehicles and artillery shells).

That is manufacturing capacity, not jobs. A factory of ten people and a few hundred robots is fine. Other types of manufacturing like chips, aerospace and medical equipment are high value and low workforce.

Tariffs and industrial policy may increase the US' manufacturing capacity, but don't expect to see many manufacturing jobs from it.

Re: America Is Missing The New Labor Economy – Robotics Part 1

#144

Post by HPsquared »

ambicapter wrote: post #140
tartuffe78 wrote: post #2

Who will buy the phones when no one is paid to produce them? The cars? The food and the clothes? Wealth keeps concentrating upward, great leaps in efficiency and throughput, but I can't see how it's a sustainable model for continued consumption growth year after year.

The plight of the poor is not an economic problem it is purely a political one. Progress in technology isn't really a root cause of poverty, rather a proximate cause with the root cause being "because the fruits of technology are not adequately shared by government policy", a policy issue. Tax the billionaires and do what government is supposed to do (use that money to protect the safety of their people), it won't ma…

Economics is inherently political. The original (and more descriptive) term for the subject is "political economy".

Re: America Is Missing The New Labor Economy – Robotics Part 1

#145

Post by alabastervlog »

Loughla wrote: post #136
alabastervlog wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. UBI is basically keeping humans as pets. UBI is similar to confining an animal? Deciding what and when it eats, when it bathes, where it goes? Training it, whether it likes it or not? Deciding whether it gets medical care? Whether it gets to have companions of its own kind? I thought it was giving people money.

I mean, depending on the amount, yes it could be deciding all of the things you said. You would be limited in your choices depending on how much the ubi actually is.

Right now I get zero ubi so I guess I am even more limited on all of those, and am even more a pet.

Re: America Is Missing The New Labor Economy – Robotics Part 1

#146

Post by flyinglizard »

watwut wrote: post #135
blueyes wrote: post #18

Some authors of this piece are deeply involved themselves in building robots and other hardware technology. They should be taken seriously. The US is moving into a trade war, however unwise, with the country that supplies components for everything we make and need. That country has expansionist ambitions and a superior manufacturing base, which is typically what wins wars.

You could also ... try not to make war. Just an idea. Pretty offputting actually to see someone supporting expansion being upvoted.

No one is trying to make war, but naturally China is looking at changing the order of things, at least regionally. To make that happen it needs USA to move out, and create its own coalition of countries around the area.

Re: America Is Missing The New Labor Economy – Robotics Part 1

#147

Post by AngryData »

slothtrop wrote: post #88
ben_w wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If "meaning" was a good argument against UBI, then nobody would want pensions, because UBI is exactly the same as setting the state pension age to zero.

Leaving aside that older people aren't as enthused about FT work they've known for 30 years, many of them keep jobs or get bored and lonely without them. Not everyone wants to sit around crafting useless projects, or consuming. Creating value for others and connecting ( and status signaling) can provide meaning, and granted in retirement there are other vectors for that made available such as volunteering. It's not a…

You don't have to make a binary choice between work and useless craft projects. Community projects and helping other people in their more meaningful projects can be useful and be fulfilling and make someone feel accomplished. Part of the problem with working as much as possible until retirement age is you never build any community presence or report and don't often make friends doing their own projects that would need your help.

Re: America Is Missing The New Labor Economy – Robotics Part 1

#148

Post by from-nibly »

guhidalg wrote: post #110
megaman821 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are manufacturing jobs special? People will upgrade their tastes to consume more. Middle class houses with artistic stone work and well-manicured gardens. Skin treatments, massages, and health scans galore. More entertainment and more niche too. Banking apps that could win design awards. We are nowhere near the end of useful work.

I think most MAGAs have this idea that 1) manufacturing is a good paying job and 2) if the US isn't manufacturing stuff, that means China is doing it for us, which will lead to 3) when we decide to go to war with China we will not have the industrial capacity to fight the war. In their world model, the opportunity cost of manufacturing things domestically is not considered, and certainly not the benefits of manufactu…

Is there not opportunity cost in both directions? At some point someone needs to have a reason to trade with the us right? Specializing only works when line goes up forever. Heck sometimes line not going up as fast as yesterday is a "crisis".

Re: America Is Missing The New Labor Economy – Robotics Part 1

#149

Post by toomuchtodo »

sampton wrote: post #80
blueyes wrote: post #18

Some authors of this piece are deeply involved themselves in building robots and other hardware technology. They should be taken seriously. The US is moving into a trade war, however unwise, with the country that supplies components for everything we make and need. That country has expansionist ambitions and a superior manufacturing base, which is typically what wins wars.

China has been methodically preparing for trade war and decoupling for the better part of the decade. US went in full throttle with zero preparation. This is not going to end well.

It’s the only way the US will learn.

Re: America Is Missing The New Labor Economy – Robotics Part 1

#150

Post by carlosjobim »

tartuffe78 wrote: post #2

Who will buy the phones when no one is paid to produce them? The cars? The food and the clothes? Wealth keeps concentrating upward, great leaps in efficiency and throughput, but I can't see how it's a sustainable model for continued consumption growth year after year.

In past times this question was solved by the ruling class commissioning monumental buildings and fine art, as well consuming enormous amounts of luxuries. This gave at least some form of employment back to the people.

Today's rulers however have no interest in monuments or in culture. And the great expenses of the past time have mostly gone out of fashion; such as having a harem, waging small wars, or constructing impressive public works. Today's rulers are content to let everything rot, as long as they themselves get to sit highest up on the pile. Not even maintaining their power through client networks cost them much, as they sway the entire population any which way they desire through the media. And that cost is tiny. The populace worship their rulers because they are told to, and the rulers do not need to show their greatness in any way at all.

The only exceptions I can think about who are actually doing something different, are the American billionaires building space ships. At least that's something.

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