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Fasting & Programming

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Re: Fasting & Programming

#151

Post by irahul »

beagle3 wrote: post #118
leocassarani wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And probably good for you - it means your body is finally getting rid of some stuff it should have gotten rid of before and didn't. That sounds like the sort of pseudo-scientific, unsubstantiated nonsense you hear all the time from New Age healer types. Do you have a source to back up your claim?

No, I do not have a source to substantiate it; I'm not sure what the study would be to look for. It is based, however, on personal experience and experience of other people I know (disappearing of bad breath coincides with other very positive and welcome changes, like injuries that were healing very slowly starting to heal at an amazing pace, disappearance of snoring, and similar things). Just a question - would you…

> Just a question - would you have reacted the same if I wrote "it isn't bad for you to eat 20 eggs a day", or "eating cholesterol isn't bad for you"? because both of these "accepted wisdoms" (limit egg consumption; dietary cholesterol is bad for you) are unsubstantiated nonsense you hear from everyone (laymen, nutritions, doctors), with no study to support them. And yet they are almost never challenged.

I would have either asked you for citation, or did my own research. But even if I haven't, two wrongs don't a right make. People are biased, and selectively accept garbage. Unsubstantiated nonsense is garbage, irrespective of its acceptance by people who know nothing about it and are accepting things on what makes them feel good.

Re: Fasting & Programming

#152

Post by vimalg2 »

boothead wrote: post #148
vimalg2 wrote: post #57

I've been trying one of the more popular Intermittent fasting protocols -Leangains for 20 days and counting. It was uncomfortable only for the first 3 days. 16-20hr (well-hydrated) fasts ended with a heavy lifting workout and BIG meal at 'breakfast' (6pm or later for me). FAQ: http://examine.com/leangains-faq/ I love it. Increased alertness, focus, no more mid-day food comas. I'm a fat guy, so my body is probably fat…

Any figures on how your body composition has changed over that time?

I don't have the resources to properly estimate and track BF%.

However, i've been tracking my waistline measurement every other day after doing my morning business and fasted. I seem to have lost 2cm since starting 3 weeks ago.

I'm inclined to not take this 'loss' that seriously because the consensus is that IF takes about 3-4 weeks to really start showing results.

On the other hand, i know i'm metabolizing fat; family members have been complaining of my new acetone breath. (ketosis!)

Re: Fasting & Programming

#153

Post by beagle3 »

Jd wrote: post #127
beagle3 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(not parent poster here, but here's my advice): Drink lots of water. When you feel like you _must_ eat right now (rarely happens after day two), drink a liter of water, and go for a short 5 minute walk. Also, add a few drops of freshly squeezed lemon juice to your water. The availability of flavor is often enough to get you through the hard 5 minutes (and after day two, it is rarely more than 5 minutes).

My experience is that even with lots of water you get serious muscle fatigue starting on day 4, and major dizzy spells everytime that you sit down/stand up. Also, the body seems to go into something of a hibernation mode and want more sleep. Besides those factors, I'd say I've managed reasonably well, and I think you could continue to work a desk job just fine -- but the inability to move quickly will kill any exerci…

Interesting. I guess it depends on the kind of exercise you do.

What I noticed is that around day 7 or so, anaerobic exercise (e.g., thai boxing) becomes very demanding and hard to keep up for more than a few minutes at a time. However, it's just as easy as always to do aerobic exercise like jogging or swimming.

Never had dizzy spells or feeling of muscle fatigue (except for anaerobic exercise) - and it was also easier to get out of bed in the morning.

However, a friend of mine noted that my body goes into a super-economic mode - that I hardly lift my feet off the ground when I walk (less than an inch on average), and that my arms seem to move quite a bit less.

Re: Fasting & Programming

#154

Post by [deleted] »

Jd wrote: post #127
beagle3 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(not parent poster here, but here's my advice): Drink lots of water. When you feel like you _must_ eat right now (rarely happens after day two), drink a liter of water, and go for a short 5 minute walk. Also, add a few drops of freshly squeezed lemon juice to your water. The availability of flavor is often enough to get you through the hard 5 minutes (and after day two, it is rarely more than 5 minutes).

My experience is that even with lots of water you get serious muscle fatigue starting on day 4, and major dizzy spells everytime that you sit down/stand up. Also, the body seems to go into something of a hibernation mode and want more sleep. Besides those factors, I'd say I've managed reasonably well, and I think you could continue to work a desk job just fine -- but the inability to move quickly will kill any exerci…

[deleted]

Re: Fasting & Programming

#155

Post by beagle3 »

anthonyb wrote: post #135
beagle3 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it depends on how much glucose and carbohydrates you're getting in your diet. Let me rephrase the question, as apparently it wasn't clear: Most instances of fasting (specific time + specific instance) do not get acetone breath at all. Some instances of fasting do get acetone breath, but if they do, it's usually only for a couple of days near the beginning of the fast (usually starting around 2nd day and end…

I'm not sure what you mean by an "instance", but there will likely be variations in how quickly people respond to metabolism, and also depends on what you're eating during the fast. One possible mechanism is that the muscles of the people fasting are more able (either through genes or exercise) to burning fat, meaning that you need to convert less fat into glucose. I'm not a biochemist (I've mainly read Good calories…

> I'm not sure what you mean by an "instance"

I defined it earlier: specific person, at a specific fasting period (by which I meant contiguous period).

> also depends on what you're eating during the fast.

I don't think we're talking about the same thing. "fast" says "what you're eating" is nothing.

Re: Fasting & Programming

#156

Post by beagle3 »

anthonyb wrote: post #136
beagle3 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that people aren't used to accessing their fat stores for energy. It is my hypothesis that most modern fat stores are not actually energy stores, but rather "toxin" jails (I use "toxin" in the sense of: a substance that the body does not want, possibly because it is harmful, and that takes non-trivial time/effort to metabolize and/or get rid of; think of e.g. mercury). Which would explain why they ar…

Doubtful; the primary way that mercury and lead are excreted is through your fingernails and hair.

But that happens at a very slow pace. Where do the mercury and lead spend time until they are excreted? The only answer I was able to get from people who are supposed to know is "all over", "in the cells", "in the blood" and similar meaningless answers.

I have yet to find anyone who has an idea about how it is actually distributed through the body.

Re: Fasting & Programming

#157

Post by beagle3 »

irahul wrote: post #150
beagle3 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that people aren't used to accessing their fat stores for energy. It is my hypothesis that most modern fat stores are not actually energy stores, but rather "toxin" jails (I use "toxin" in the sense of: a substance that the body does not want, possibly because it is harmful, and that takes non-trivial time/effort to metabolize and/or get rid of; think of e.g. mercury). Which would explain why they ar…

> (You may laugh, but it is not inherently less plausible -- or less supported -- than the idea that fat stores are used exclusively as energy stores). Burning fat for energy isn't an idea . As for your hypothesis, hypothesis doesn't mean making up random stuff.

Indeed, but please read what you quoted. I didn't state that "burning fat for energy is an idea". See the word "burning" in what you quoted? neither do I.

"fat store used exclusive as energy store" IS an idea or hypothesis. One that underlies a lot of other assumptions and theories about nutrition, but is actually known to be wrong -- fat is used for a lot of other things as well (your brain is mostly made of fatty acids, for one; the skin is constantly lubricated with fat for another).

Re: Fasting & Programming

#158

Post by beagle3 »

irahul wrote: post #151
beagle3 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I do not have a source to substantiate it; I'm not sure what the study would be to look for. It is based, however, on personal experience and experience of other people I know (disappearing of bad breath coincides with other very positive and welcome changes, like injuries that were healing very slowly starting to heal at an amazing pace, disappearance of snoring, and similar things). Just a question - would you…

> Just a question - would you have reacted the same if I wrote "it isn't bad for you to eat 20 eggs a day", or "eating cholesterol isn't bad for you"? because both of these "accepted wisdoms" (limit egg consumption; dietary cholesterol is bad for you) are unsubstantiated nonsense you hear from everyone (laymen, nutritions, doctors), with no study to support them. And yet they are almost never challenged. I would have…

> Unsubstantiated nonsense is garbage, irrespective of its acceptance by people who know nothing about it and are accepting things on what makes them feel good.

That's true, and describes 99% of what people believe. It's just that I never see any of the mainstream proved-wrong beliefs challenged on HN - they either get a response like "no, that's wrong, and here is a reference", or accepted as gospel. Not surprising, really.

No one is saying two wrongs make one right. I clearly stated that I don't have a reference anyone can check.

Re: Fasting & Programming

#159

Post by wr1472 »

gwern wrote: post #15

> Let’s just say fasting isn’t one of them. All of my co-workers; I have worked with past and present have been extremely understanding and respectful of the [month-long] fast. Also as a by-product of this kindness they have coined the term: "Ramadan code". If I were an employer, after reading this...

I'm fasting and coding now - I really don't see a drop in code quality. Nor have I noticed it in others who have been fasting at the time.

We all seem to look for externalities to explain bad performances. Maybe the code wasn't very good, or the design not conducive to writing good quality code?

Re: Fasting & Programming

#160

Post by anthonyb »

beagle3 wrote: post #155
anthonyb wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you mean by an "instance", but there will likely be variations in how quickly people respond to metabolism, and also depends on what you're eating during the fast. One possible mechanism is that the muscles of the people fasting are more able (either through genes or exercise) to burning fat, meaning that you need to convert less fat into glucose. I'm not a biochemist (I've mainly read Good calories…

> I'm not sure what you mean by an "instance" I defined it earlier: specific person, at a specific fasting period (by which I meant contiguous period). > also depends on what you're eating during the fast. I don't think we're talking about the same thing. "fast" says "what you're eating" is nothing.

Eating nothing for three weeks?! That's stupid and dangerous.

You're putting your life at risk from heart attack and kidney and liver failure (and other people's, judging from your comments in this thread).

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