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Extreme poverty in India has dropped to negligible levels

economist.com

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Re: Extreme poverty in India has dropped to negligible levels

#51

Post by ViktorRay »

profsummergig wrote: post #45
eclecticfrank wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India is on a steady path of improvement and has awareness campaigns running that adress these issues. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in... https://innovateindia.mygov.in/toilet-campaign/ https://siwi.org/latest/the-clean-india-mission-worlds-large...

The recent Delhi election, I was watching videos of some of the slums. There were literal hills of rotting organic garbage inside the slums. With children living next to them. I had visions of Paul Ehrlich freaking out at the sight of people defecating and bathing on the roadside in Delhi. I saw photos of some of the "mohalla clinics" (free basic healthcare clinics) that the previous Delhi government had (admittedly…

One issue is the unfortunate deep level of corruption in Indian society.

If people create many waste management companies and people tried to invest in them then some people would just create fake companies and simply steal the money. There’s no trust.

Or at least that’s the way it used to be decades prior. Your suggestion nowadays might actually work because the Indian government has now identification measures for every Indian citizen. And other new technologies and enforcement which make this type of corruption more easier to eliminate.

But the deep seated cultural perceptions of dishonesty and endemic corruption from the past will continue for many years unfortunately.

Hopefully one day India can become the kind of place you are suggesting.

Re: Extreme poverty in India has dropped to negligible levels

#52

Post by jajko »

profsummergig wrote: post #45
eclecticfrank wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India is on a steady path of improvement and has awareness campaigns running that adress these issues. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in... https://innovateindia.mygov.in/toilet-campaign/ https://siwi.org/latest/the-clean-india-mission-worlds-large...

The recent Delhi election, I was watching videos of some of the slums. There were literal hills of rotting organic garbage inside the slums. With children living next to them. I had visions of Paul Ehrlich freaking out at the sight of people defecating and bathing on the roadside in Delhi. I saw photos of some of the "mohalla clinics" (free basic healthcare clinics) that the previous Delhi government had (admittedly…

Watched videos, seeing photos... you should travel a bit more IMHO. Not everything is quickly solvable by 'billion dollar startup' mentality. Understand their culture and history a bit, where they are coming from and where they as society go, realistic limits and so on.

Re: Extreme poverty in India has dropped to negligible levels

#53

Post by ViktorRay »

China and India had similar levels of poverty 50 years ago.

How come China today is so different from India today? In terms of cleanliness and poverty elimination specifically.

I know China liberalized in the 80’s and India in the 90’s. So you could say that’s a 10 year difference.

But China 10 years ago was still very different from India even today.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Re: Extreme poverty in India has dropped to negligible levels

#54

Post by Amezarak »

forgotoldacc wrote: post #35
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No AC in the summer, no proper medical care and the possibility of dying from a mild tooth problem, only having access to food that's in-season, zero running water, needing to have your poop hauled away in buckets, needing to spend all day just to travel 15 km, being blamed for a random crime and executed days later with no real evidence. I think this is greatly exaggerated. Actual royalty had access to vast amount…

Where are you getting ice from in 1500s Italy? You get an arrow pulled out of your skull, but what are you doing with the resulting infection? People bring you food from far away, but there's no refrigeration and it's hauled at 15 kilometers a day. You can pay someone a lot of money to bring avocados from 1000 kilometers away by foot today. But you won't want to eat those avocados. Get bit by the wrong mosquito? You'…

> Where are you getting ice from in 1500s Italy?

The Romans had ice available even for common people. They harvested it from the mountains. Ice can be stored a surprisingly long time if kept out of sunlight and packed correctly. I know less about 1500s Italy specifically, but obviously the technology existed if people wanted to do it.

> You get an arrow pulled out of your skull, but what are you doing with the resulting infection?

An infection was bad news, but by no means guaranteed. Soldiers frequently suffered horrific wounds and survived, assuming they weren't on an interminable hell campaign with no chance to recover. It's actually quite surprising how resilient people are.

> People bring you food from far away, but there's no refrigeration and it's hauled at 15 kilometers a day.

Where are you getting the 15km number? Of course it depends on the topography, but also the mode of transportation.

> You can pay someone a lot of money to bring avocados from 1000 kilometers away by foot today. But you won't want to eat those avocados.

It really depends on what you are eating. Trade did bring all sorts of exotic food items hundreds or thousands of miles.

Re: Extreme poverty in India has dropped to negligible levels

#55

Post by profsummergig »

navigate8310 wrote: post #49
profsummergig wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recent Delhi election, I was watching videos of some of the slums. There were literal hills of rotting organic garbage inside the slums. With children living next to them. I had visions of Paul Ehrlich freaking out at the sight of people defecating and bathing on the roadside in Delhi. I saw photos of some of the "mohalla clinics" (free basic healthcare clinics) that the previous Delhi government had (admittedly…

I believe that's ingrained in the culture to live besides the filth and romanticize poverty.

There was a recent scandal involving someone spitting paan/chewing tobacco on the floor inside one of the state assemblies.

A video I watched of a brand spanking new metro station in Mumbai. Marble floors and all. And a commenter pointed out a timestamp where you can see paan/chewing tobacco spit in a corner of the floor.

Here's what baffles me. It is well established that Indians chew paan/chewing tobacco. It is well established that they then spit these out. Why don't they have spitoons installed inside the state assembly or metro stations? Treat it as a cultural opportunity: create beautiful spitoons with culturally relevant designs on them. The type kings used to have in their courts. And have them sponsored by businesses (i.e. let them post digital banner ads on them). Enlightened capitalism!

Re: Extreme poverty in India has dropped to negligible levels

#57

Post by clarionbell »

ViktorRay wrote: post #53

China and India had similar levels of poverty 50 years ago. How come China today is so different from India today? In terms of cleanliness and poverty elimination specifically. I know China liberalized in the 80’s and India in the 90’s. So you could say that’s a 10 year difference. But China 10 years ago was still very different from India even today. Does anyone have any ideas?

It is much harder to report on problems in China than in India for one.

Re: Extreme poverty in India has dropped to negligible levels

#58

Post by iafiaf »

andsoitis wrote: post #10

Counter balance: “According to the 2023 Global Hunger Index, India ranks 111th out of 125 countries, with a score of 28.7, indicating a “serious” level of hunger. Although this is a slight improvement from its 2015 score of 29.2, the progress has been slow compared to countries with similar economic growth rates. India also has the highest child wasting rate in the world at 18.7%. And 35.5% of children under five are…

I would urge you to watch a statistical debunking of these so-called "global goodness" metrics. Sanjeev Sanyal does a good job of it [1],[2],[3] Multiple organization(s) that manage such indices are, turns out, funded by the same cabal who want to concoct a narrative. They are not unbiased.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Lgf2WHstBY

[2] [PDF] https://eacpm.gov.in/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Reversing-Ga...

[3] https://www.businesstoday.in/india/story/sanjeev-sanyal-blas...

Re: Extreme poverty in India has dropped to negligible levels

#59

Post by dartharva »

eclecticfrank wrote: post #40
profsummergig wrote: post #36

India really needs to work on consciousness-raising regarding sanitation/cleanliness. Modi made a start in 2014. I don't know why the momentum stopped. Some of the videos coming out of there (e.g. the recent video of the railway employee throwing a huge amount of used disposable plastic food trays off a moving train) are shocking.

India is on a steady path of improvement and has awareness campaigns running that adress these issues. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in... https://innovateindia.mygov.in/toilet-campaign/ https://siwi.org/latest/the-clean-india-mission-worlds-large...

Are you sure? Having lived all across the country (and currently in Mumbai), I haven't seen any progress on that part since at least the last half decade.

The "Swacch Bharat" campaign that was launched more than a decade ago only gave some short-lived upgrades to public places.

Re: Extreme poverty in India has dropped to negligible levels

#60

Post by dartharva »

navigate8310 wrote: post #49
profsummergig wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recent Delhi election, I was watching videos of some of the slums. There were literal hills of rotting organic garbage inside the slums. With children living next to them. I had visions of Paul Ehrlich freaking out at the sight of people defecating and bathing on the roadside in Delhi. I saw photos of some of the "mohalla clinics" (free basic healthcare clinics) that the previous Delhi government had (admittedly…

I believe that's ingrained in the culture to live besides the filth and romanticize poverty.

Disgustingly racist comment.
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